December 14, 2011
"Don" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:jc97mn$257t$1@digitalmars.com...
>
> This is a silly and offensive statement. Most languages are in this situation. Look at Python2 vs Python3, Perl6 vs Perl5.
>

Interpreted languages are a very different matter (especially so for web development). They're not just compilers, they're effectively platforms. Python2 is needed just to *run* Python2 software. The same is not true for compiled languages: D1 is only needed to compile D1 software, not to run it. Languages like Perl and Python have much more need to maintain older branches.


December 14, 2011
On 12/14/2011 2:49 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2011-12-14 11:29, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 12/14/2011 2:24 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>>> I don't know, it's more about in what state D2 and Phobos is and what
>>> changes D1
>>> will get before the support ends. I'm thinking mostly of dynamic
>>> libraries.
>>
>> It's likely D1 and D2 will get dynamic libraries at the same time,
>> because it's mostly a backend issue.
>
> I thought it was mostly a runtime issue. I managed to implement it for Tango
> without any changes to the compiler.

It couldn't be, because there was a serious omission in the -fPIC code generation fixed in 2.057.
December 14, 2011
On 12/14/2011 3:06 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>>> I added patches to a few bugzilla issues as well. But they are long
>>> outdated by
>>> now (the patches that is).
>>
>> I'd appreciate if they were submitted as pull requests.
>
> Yes, they were added a long time ago, before the move to github.

I understand that, but can you please do one of these:

1. give me a list of bugzilla numbers

2. resubmit them as git pull requests (the advantage here is that the "audit trail" giving you credit will be intact)

December 14, 2011
On 12/14/2011 3:06 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> I'm not suggesting that you would know everything but at least that we could
> agree what we want to do about TLS and dynamic libraries on Mac OS X.
>
> 1. Should we stick with the TLS implementation we have and wait for 10.8
> 1.A. Does this mean 10.6 will not be supported in the future
> 1.B. Will we be able to solve the TLS issues with dynamic libraries with the
> current implementation
>
> 2. Should we try to emulate the 10.7 implementation our self to support 10.6 as
> well and at the same time be forward compatible
>
> I would hope that these are question we could try to figure out and agree upon.

The answer is:

I don't know enough about it to pick the right solution.

In the future, however, I think it is clear we should not be rolling our own solution - we should be compatible with whatever gcc does.
December 14, 2011
On Wednesday, 14 December 2011 at 09:50:09 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 12/14/2011 12:30 AM, Don wrote:
>> So, didn't sound then as though D1 was a big issue. Yet a month later you
>> announce you've made a private decision about axing D1.
>> Feels exactly like a military coup.
>
> Well, it wasn't one. The thing is, as I posted in this thread recently, there's little to no evidence of D1 interest - nobody responded to the beta, no posts about D1, no new bug reports about D1, no response to the new D1 releases (yes, Jacob just did a reply to it), etc.

Another Jakob here, I'm a D1 user and I have contributed some
changes to phobos to fix D1 use issues on Mac. Any problems I
had with it are now resolved. (well there are some major ones
with regards to the GC but D1 is stable so I just have to live
with it).

I'm sorry I haven't responded to the D1 beta's.

> I feel like I was supporting D1 in a vacuum. I've been thinking about ending support for it for some time because of that.
>
> I don't know where the D1 community is, or even if it exists anymore.

I'm here!

Anyways couldn't you just do releases less often or only when there is something to release? Like every other D2 release to lessen the burden?

Cheers, Jakob.
December 14, 2011
"Jacob Carlborg" <doob@me.com> wrote in message news:jc9jjs$2ouq$1@digitalmars.com...
>
> I'm tried of waiting for something to be useable, I want something usable now and that is D1 and Tango. I don't feel like spending too much time in porting Tango to D2.
>

I've been using D2 for over a year, and I've always found it perfectly usable. More usable than D1, in fact.


December 14, 2011
On 12/14/2011 10:28 AM, Jakob Bornecrantz wrote:
>> I don't know where the D1 community is, or even if it exists anymore.
>
> I'm here!

Thanks for speaking up.

> Anyways couldn't you just do releases less often or only when there is something
> to release? Like every other D2 release to lessen the burden?

Can I turn that around and ask what issues there are with migrating your code base to D2?
December 14, 2011
"Andrei Alexandrescu" <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote in message news:jc9lgq$2tip$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 12/14/11 1:59 AM, Damian Ziemba wrote:
>> On Saturday, 10 December 2011 at 21:19:02 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>
>> With all respect to you Andrei, you had no input in D1, I thought that if D1 support will be ever dropped, Walter will announce it. Well...
>>
>> In my humble opinion D1 community is still active.
>
> Is there an online hang out place for the community - a forum?
>

There's the official Tango forums:

http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums

But there's very little activity there. In the last 6 months (May 14, 2011 - Dec 14, 2011), there have been 22 posts (across 8 threads, and 7 unique users), broken down like this:

- Jacob Carlborg: 10 posts
- Me: 3 posts (All directly related to my contibutions to Jacob's
D1/Tango-based DVM - which I'll reiterate is a fantastic tool, btw)
- Kris (one of the main Tango devs): 3 posts
- Lars (one of the main Tango devs): 1 post
- Other: 5 posts (3 unique users, none of whom I recognized)


December 14, 2011
"Jacob Carlborg" <doob@me.com> wrote in message news:jc9u6j$ebc$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 2011-12-14 10:56, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 12/14/2011 12:45 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>>> The few times I've contributed to the compiler I've sent a patch or a
>>> pull
>>> request and the end result is that nothing happens. If I'm lucky I get
>>> a few
>>> comments, I answer them and then nothing.
>>
>> There's currently one open dmd pull request from you. Any others you've done have been incorporated.
>
> Yeah and what happened to that. I got a few comments about the tests failing, but they ended up being a misunderstanding.
>
> The same thing happened recently with my attempt of fixing dynamic libraries. It always feel like I'm ending with a question I never get an answer to.
>

I don't mean this as an attack on Tango or any of the Tango people, but FWIW, that's how I usually feel about Tango's support. It seems like most of my Tango questions on the msg board go unanswered or maybe just partially answered, whereas on Phobos2 I always get quick help from the NG.


December 14, 2011
On 14.12.2011 14:05, Gour wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:15:58 +0100
> Jacob Carlborg<doob@me.com>  wrote:
>
>>  I don't know if all of them are successful but important: Tango, DWT,
>>  Minid, Orange,
>
> Not to say those are not important, but there are, afaict, falling in
> the category of D1's ecosystem, not end-user apps.
>
> Otoh Tango is ported to D2, Minid has moved to Croc, while DWT&  Orange
> have D2 ports.

DWT for D2 is not in a usable state yet.  I'd assume the same goes for Tango.