January 23, 2012
"Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:jfk7t3$2l8v$2@digitalmars.com...
> On 1/23/2012 3:51 AM, foobar wrote:
>> A few additional points:
>> # Microsoft allegedly does a lot of usability research and they came up
>> with the
>> upcoming Metro design which relies on text instead of icons. # Regarding
>> the
>> English language - Icons are supposed to be universal so it saves money
>> for
>> companies to localize their software. Localized UIs do present a trade
>> off in
>> usability: It depends which terminology is more common, the local or the
>> foreign
>> (English). E.g. "print" is easy to translate and would be intuitive for
>> non
>> techies but "bittorent" probably isn't.
>
> One huge issue with "universal" icons is that each company copyrights theirs. So every user interface uses deliberately different icons.

IP is evil. That's what I love about China: Not much respect for IP. Thanks to China's disregard for such things, I have an adaptor that lets me use the fantastic DualShock2 on Xbox1, GC or PC. That would *never* happen in the US or any heavily-US-influenced country. The corporations and lawyers just wouldn't allow it.


January 23, 2012
"Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:jfk81o$2l8v$3@digitalmars.com...
> On 1/23/2012 3:59 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>> Back to Thunderbird email. The icon for "Spell" is ABC over a check
>>> mark.
>>> That is not smaller or more intuitive than "Spell".
>>
>> No, not initially, but once you do know it, it's much easier to identify
>> at
>> a glance.
>
> I picked that deliberately because the "icon" is 3 *letters*!

It's an ironic example, yes, but a rare one as far as icons go.


January 23, 2012
On Monday, January 23, 2012 17:37:59 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> IP is evil. That's what I love about China: Not much respect for IP. Thanks to China's disregard for such things, I have an adaptor that lets me use the fantastic DualShock2 on Xbox1, GC or PC. That would *never* happen in the US or any heavily-US-influenced country. The corporations and lawyers just wouldn't allow it.

IP is not entirely evil. For instance, I think that it's perfectly legitimate for an author to want to be paid for the book that they wrote. The same goes for a song or a movie. And if I write code, and I don't release it under an open source license, then no one has any business using it without my permission as long as the copyright holds. The problem is that companies take it way too far. Too much is protected - the prime example of this being software patents (it's ludicrous to patent an idea IMHO) - and companies go too far in protecting it (e.g. MPAA or RIAA).

The end result is that instead of legitimately protecting innovation and inventions, IP is now frequently used to stifle innovation and prevent competition.

The basic concept isn't necessarily bad, but how it's been applied has gone way too far.

- Jonathan M Davis
January 23, 2012
"Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg@gmx.com> wrote in message news:mailman.754.1327359014.16222.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
> On Monday, January 23, 2012 17:37:59 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> IP is evil. That's what I love about China: Not much respect for IP.
>> Thanks
>> to China's disregard for such things, I have an adaptor that lets me use
>> the
>> fantastic DualShock2 on Xbox1, GC or PC. That would *never* happen in the
>> US or any heavily-US-influenced country. The corporations and lawyers
>> just
>> wouldn't allow it.
>
> IP is not entirely evil. For instance, I think that it's perfectly
> legitimate
> for an author to want to be paid for the book that they wrote. The same
> goes
> for a song or a movie. And if I write code, and I don't release it under
> an
> open source license, then no one has any business using it without my
> permission as long as the copyright holds. The problem is that companies
> take
> it way too far. Too much is protected - the prime example of this being
> software patents (it's ludicrous to patent an idea IMHO) - and companies
> go
> too far in protecting it (e.g. MPAA or RIAA).
>
> The end result is that instead of legitimately protecting innovation and inventions, IP is now frequently used to stifle innovation and prevent competition.
>
> The basic concept isn't necessarily bad, but how it's been applied has
> gone
> way too far.
>

Right. I guess I meant more "Modern IP" ;)


January 24, 2012
On 1/23/2012 2:49 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> The basic concept isn't necessarily bad, but how it's been applied has gone
> way too far.

My position is simple:

Copyrights expire after 20 years. Renewable for another 20 years for a fee of $1000/year per registered copyright.

No software patents.
January 24, 2012
"Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:jfkt32$rjc$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 1/23/2012 2:49 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>> The basic concept isn't necessarily bad, but how it's been applied has
>> gone
>> way too far.
>
> My position is simple:
>
> Copyrights expire after 20 years. Renewable for another 20 years for a fee of $1000/year per registered copyright.
>
> No software patents.

Sensible enough. I'd add two things though:

- No using IP to prevent interoperability or user-modification (This would also cover things like abusing IP to require all DVD players to obey PUO's - Another thing I love about markets that have little regard for US IP law).

- Anyone in the USPTO found to be involved in the voilation of the USPTO's *own* "obviousness" rule (software or otherwise) is fired, fined and jailed.


January 24, 2012
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 18:11:47 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 3:51 AM, foobar wrote:
>> A few additional points:
>> # Microsoft allegedly does a lot of usability research and they came up with the
>> upcoming Metro design which relies on text instead of icons. # Regarding the
>> English language - Icons are supposed to be universal so it saves money for
>> companies to localize their software. Localized UIs do present a trade off in
>> usability: It depends which terminology is more common, the local or the foreign
>> (English). E.g. "print" is easy to translate and would be intuitive for non
>> techies but "bittorent" probably isn't.
>
> One huge issue with "universal" icons is that each company copyrights theirs. So every user interface uses deliberately different icons.

Oh, I totally agree with you. That's why I said "supposed to". :)
I had the same issue at my last work as Don, could never figure out the phone icons.
January 24, 2012
On Monday, 23 January 2012 at 22:50:15 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2012 17:37:59 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> IP is evil. That's what I love about China: Not much respect for IP. Thanks
>> to China's disregard for such things, I have an adaptor that lets me use the
>> fantastic DualShock2 on Xbox1, GC or PC. That would *never* happen in the
>> US or any heavily-US-influenced country. The corporations and lawyers just
>> wouldn't allow it.
>
> IP is not entirely evil. For instance, I think that it's perfectly legitimate for an author to want to be paid for the book that they wrote. The same goes for a song or a movie. And if I write code, and I don't release it under an open source license, then no one has any business using it without my permission as long as the copyright holds. The problem is that companies take it way too far. Too much is protected - the prime example of this being software patents (it's ludicrous to patent an idea IMHO) - and companies go too far in protecting it (e.g. MPAA or RIAA).
>
> The end result is that instead of legitimately protecting innovation and inventions, IP is now frequently used to stifle innovation and prevent competition.
>
> The basic concept isn't necessarily bad, but how it's been applied has gone way too far.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

IP can't be evil, it's the basic protocol of the internet ;)
seriously though, the term IP is highly misleading and doesn't have a hold in (legal) reality. It's a collection of unrelated laws with separate agendas and purposes: copyright, patent, trademarks. Each individual law *supposed to* make sense, but at a whole they really don't. Yes, it is perfectly legitimate for an author/artist/musician/font creator/etc to want to be paid and they really should be. it is not hover at all legitimate that a book publisher/record company/etc be paid if that business model isn't justified anymore in the market place. Forcing those on the market when they aren't necessary is the true meaning of evil. I also disagree that it's the companies' fault. They simply want to make money. That their purpose. The government is the responsible party to set the rules for corporations and not vice versa and the US government is completely at fault for this huge mess. It's like children setting the rule for their parents.
January 24, 2012
"foobar" <foo@bar.com> wrote in message news:gaeafbliswzwkmitpghj@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net...
>
> IP can't be evil, it's the basic protocol of the internet ;)
> seriously though, the term IP is highly misleading and doesn't have a hold
> in (legal) reality. It's a collection of unrelated laws with separate
> agendas and purposes: copyright, patent, trademarks. Each individual law
> *supposed to* make sense, but at a whole they really don't. Yes, it is
> perfectly legitimate for an author/artist/musician/font creator/etc to
> want to be paid and they really should be. it is not hover at all
> legitimate that a book publisher/record company/etc be paid if that
> business model isn't justified anymore in the market place. Forcing those
> on the market when they aren't necessary is the true meaning of evil. I
> also disagree that it's the companies' fault. They simply want to make
> money. That their purpose. The government is the responsible party to set
> the rules for corporations and not vice versa and the US government is
> completely at fault for this huge mess. It's like children setting the
> rule for their parents.

I'm not entirely convinced that the US gov isn't effectively a corporate puppet.


January 24, 2012
On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 at 07:09:47 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> "foobar" <foo@bar.com> wrote in message news:gaeafbliswzwkmitpghj@dfeed.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net...
>>
>> IP can't be evil, it's the basic protocol of the internet ;)
>> seriously though, the term IP is highly misleading and doesn't have a hold in (legal) reality. It's a collection of unrelated laws with separate agendas and purposes: copyright, patent, trademarks. Each individual law *supposed to* make sense, but at a whole they really don't. Yes, it is perfectly legitimate for an author/artist/musician/font creator/etc to want to be paid and they really should be. it is not hover at all legitimate that a book publisher/record company/etc be paid if that business model isn't justified anymore in the market place. Forcing those on the market when they aren't necessary is the true meaning of evil. I also disagree that it's the companies' fault. They simply want to make money. That their purpose. The government is the responsible party to set the rules for corporations and not vice versa and the US government is completely at fault for this huge mess. It's like children setting the rule for their parents.
>
> I'm not entirely convinced that the US gov isn't effectively a corporate puppet.

If it is it just proves my point and stuff needs to be done to change the current circumstances. AFAIK the current situation is against the spirit if not the letter of the US constitution which forbids any group from oppressing another (in this case Corporate America vs. the little guy).

There is this phenomena in the US where some people feel that they have the right to be ignorant but they ought to realize that this isn't a core human right and it slowly degrades society in such a way that they lose all other rights and freedoms. People should educate themselves and be responsible for their votes and actually do vote. In my country (Israel) an elections with ~67% of people voting was the lowest percentage ever and usually it's closer to 80%. in the USA it's closer to 50%. That isn't even a majority of the population!

The current situation is directly connected to the ignorance and lack of caring by the people. After all, a democratic government comes from the people and represents the people. Clearly, the citizens of the USA didn't care enough.
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