May 10, 2012
On 10 May 2012 12:38, Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling@webdrake.net>wrote:

> On 10/05/12 10:18, deadalnix wrote:
>
>> Le 10/05/2012 06:35, Nick Sabalausky a écrit :
>>
>>> Really? ARM servers? This is the first I've heard of it. (Intel must be
>>> crapping themselves.)
>>>
>>
>> ARM is more energy efficient than x86 . This is a more and more serious alternative for datacenters.
>>
>
> Yea, it's in the process of arriving now but is surely going to be a very big deal -- lower energy consumption, lower heat production (= more densely packed datacentres), cheaper individual nodes ...
>
> See e.g.:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/**technology-15540910<http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-15540910>
> https://www.pcworld.com/**article/249988/hp_to_make_arm_**
> servers_available_for_testing_**in_q2.html<https://www.pcworld.com/article/249988/hp_to_make_arm_servers_available_for_testing_in_q2.html>
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/**2012/01/arm-servers-lca/<http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/arm-servers-lca/>
>
> When you also factor in that within a year you're likely to be seeing full
> desktop solutions running off ARM-based phone/tablet devices [see e.g.
> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/**android<http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android>] it should be apparent that ARM is a very important target for D.
>
> To me, that's a reason as compelling as the licensing issues (if not more so) why the reference D compiler might want to switch to an alternative backend.
>

Amen! :)


May 11, 2012
On 10/05/12 21:01, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:16:10 Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
>> Is that an issue for LLVM, which is BSD-licensed? I will understand if the
>> answer is, "I don't care, I don't even want to risk it."
>
> You'll have to talk to Walter if you want to know what exactly he is willing
> and isn't willing to do or what he can and can't do.

Sure.  I was just not sure if this particular suggestion had been raised and answered by Walter before.

> But if someone is going to consider dmd's backend's license to be an issue,
> they don't know enough to understand the situation properly, and I wouldn't
> expect anything with gdc and ldc to change that, since they'd _still_ have to
> know more to understand the situation properly. The fact that gdc and ldc
> _exist_ should solve the problem already, but we still get FUD. We'd still be
> getting FUD even if dmd's backend _were_ changed to the GPL, simply because it
> wasn't before.

The difference is that with an OS-licensed backend, you can counter FUD with one line -- "Here's the licence".  Without it, you have to go into the extended discussion we've just had, with so many opportunities for misunderstanding and confusion.  And yes, D would probably continue to suffer some FUD in the short term even with a backend licence change, but not in the long term -- look at the history of Qt for a comparison.

GDC and LDC solve _one_ problem -- the problem of developing D programs using purely open source tools.  But they leave remaining the problem of contributing to the core of D using purely open source.

That's not a problem that is urgent to address right now but it is a problem that probably needs to be addressed at some point.

> The situation can't really be fixed, so I don't see much point
> in trying to spend a lot of time and effort trying to fix it.

Not for now, certainly.  I do think, though, that it's worth having the detail of the issues involved laid out and understood.  That allows for some longer term planning and thinking around possible solutions.
May 12, 2012
"Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator@gmail.com> wrote in message news:zhapcktjpldxzejorqor@forum.dlang.org...
>
> Now, I get the annoyance in not distributing it (without permission) - it bugs me with the D-> JS fork too.
>

Huh?  The D -> JS fork has no need for the backend.  Just cut it out and distribute as you like!


May 12, 2012
On Saturday, 12 May 2012 at 14:28:26 UTC, Daniel Murphy wrote:
> Huh?  The D -> JS fork has no need for the backend.  Just cut it out and
> distribute as you like!

So far, I've found that easier said than done!

Perhaps if I really sat down and worked it it'd be better
though but it is just boring.
May 12, 2012
On 5/9/2012 9:35 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> Just as well, I guess: Even if I had one today, it'd probably be quite
> awhile before I'd even have the time to play with it anyway. And if I do get
> time, there's a VM image of it you can download and play with (which I got
> and still haven't looked at ;) ).

Oh, I wish I could take time off and hack away on a Pi !

I've always wanted a computer that had no fan and used only a handful of watts.

May 12, 2012
On 5/9/2012 9:37 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote:
> The procedure is 'get it done' approach.   Meld helps alot, not having
> too many differences between the frontends helps alot, using the D2
> testsuite at every stage of the process helps alot.


I don't know what I'd do without meld these days. It's one of the most useful programming tools to come down the pike in years!

There's a workalike on Windows called "winmerge" for those who develop on Windows.
May 13, 2012
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com>wrote:

> On 5/9/2012 9:35 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>
>> Just as well, I guess: Even if I had one today, it'd probably be quite
>> awhile before I'd even have the time to play with it anyway. And if I do
>> get
>> time, there's a VM image of it you can download and play with (which I got
>> and still haven't looked at ;) ).
>>
>
> Oh, I wish I could take time off and hack away on a Pi !
>
> I've always wanted a computer that had no fan and used only a handful of watts.
>
>
I've been using a Trimslice ( http://trimslice.com/web/ ) as a home server and router for a while now. Higher end specs, a nicer box, and they give a discount to open source developers.


May 13, 2012
On 5/12/2012 7:02 PM, Andrew Wiley wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com
> <mailto:newshound2@digitalmars.com>> wrote:
>     I've always wanted a computer that had no fan and used only a handful of watts.
> I've been using a Trimslice ( http://trimslice.com/web/ ) as a home server and
> router for a while now. Higher end specs, a nicer box, and they give a discount
> to open source developers.


But nobody makes a *desktop* fanless arm machine.
May 13, 2012
On Sunday, 13 May 2012 at 03:33:56 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 5/12/2012 7:02 PM, Andrew Wiley wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com
>> <mailto:newshound2@digitalmars.com>> wrote:
>>    I've always wanted a computer that had no fan and used only a handful of watts.
>> I've been using a Trimslice ( http://trimslice.com/web/ ) as a home server and
>> router for a while now. Higher end specs, a nicer box, and they give a discount
>> to open source developers.
>
>
> But nobody makes a *desktop* fanless arm machine.

You could use a beagle board or a panda board as a desktop computer.
May 13, 2012
On 5/12/2012 8:33 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 5/12/2012 7:02 PM, Andrew Wiley wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com
>> <mailto:newshound2@digitalmars.com>> wrote:
>>     I've always wanted a computer that had no fan and used only a handful of watts.
>> I've been using a Trimslice ( http://trimslice.com/web/ ) as a home server and
>> router for a while now. Higher end specs, a nicer box, and they give a discount
>> to open source developers.
> 
> 
> But nobody makes a *desktop* fanless arm machine.

... yet.