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May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On Friday, 18 May 2012 at 16:59:41 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
> On 12/05/2012 01:00, Timon Gehr wrote:
>> some essential properties:
>> - starts up instantaneously
> ....
>> some 'nice to have' properties:
>> - code analysis based code completion
> > - integrated debugger
>
> So just starting up the IDE is more important than actually 
> writing code or fixing bugs?...
>
> Seriously, I'm never going to understand you "editor" people..

Latency vs. Throughput.


Both of them matter.
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On 18-05-2012 18:59, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
> On 12/05/2012 01:00, Timon Gehr wrote:
>> some essential properties:
>> - starts up instantaneously
> .....
>> some 'nice to have' properties:
>> - code analysis based code completion
>  > - integrated debugger
>
> So just starting up the IDE is more important than actually writing code
> or fixing bugs?...

I shouldn't have to keep my IDE open all the time when I'm not using it. 
I should be able to just open it at any point where I need it and close 
it immediately when I'm done.

>
> Seriously, I'm never going to understand you "editor" people..
>

-- 
Alex Rønne Petersen
alex@lycus.org
http://lycus.org
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On Thursday, 17 May 2012 at 19:19:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
> On 5/17/12 11:52 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
>> On Thursday, 17 May 2012 at 15:26:19 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
>> wrote:
>>> I agree binarySearch is more precise, but I also think it's a 
>>> minor
>>> issue not worth the cost of changing at this point. Improving 
>>> names of
>>> things in the standard library is a quest that could go 
>>> forever, make
>>> everybody happy we're making progress, and achieve no 
>>> substantial gain.
>>
>> No need to change anything, just add something:
>>
>> bool binarySearch(Range, Value)(Range range, Value value)
>> {
>> return assumeSorted(range).contains(value);
>> }
>>
>> (constraints, predicates and the myriad of 
>> qualifiers/decorations
>> omitted for clarity).
>
> I don't see much benefit in this - just lateral walking. As 
> long as the keyphrase "binary search" is present in the 
> documentation, that's all that's needed as far as newcomers 
> discoverability is concerned.

It's not just for newcomers discoverability, it's also for 
readability. Reading the assumeSorted version, it's not clear 
that a binary search is done.
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On 5/18/12 4:11 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
> On Thursday, 17 May 2012 at 19:19:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> On 5/17/12 11:52 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 17 May 2012 at 15:26:19 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>> I agree binarySearch is more precise, but I also think it's a minor
>>>> issue not worth the cost of changing at this point. Improving names of
>>>> things in the standard library is a quest that could go forever, make
>>>> everybody happy we're making progress, and achieve no substantial gain.
>>>
>>> No need to change anything, just add something:
>>>
>>> bool binarySearch(Range, Value)(Range range, Value value)
>>> {
>>> return assumeSorted(range).contains(value);
>>> }
>>>
>>> (constraints, predicates and the myriad of qualifiers/decorations
>>> omitted for clarity).
>>
>> I don't see much benefit in this - just lateral walking. As long as
>> the keyphrase "binary search" is present in the documentation, that's
>> all that's needed as far as newcomers discoverability is concerned.
>
> It's not just for newcomers discoverability, it's also for readability.
> Reading the assumeSorted version, it's not clear that a binary search is
> done.

I guess it is now :o).

Andrei
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On Friday, 18 May 2012 at 21:28:45 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> I guess it is now :o).
>
> Andrei

lol


One more thing that's also annoying about this is that it's not 
in std.algorithms, but std.range...

Asn't binary search an algorithm?
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On 5/18/12 4:36 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
> On Friday, 18 May 2012 at 21:28:45 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> I guess it is now :o).
>>
>> Andrei
>
> lol
>
>
> One more thing that's also annoying about this is that it's not in
> std.algorithms, but std.range...
>
> Asn't binary search an algorithm?

It is, and the decision (after a good amount of deliberation) is 
arbitrary. Some rationale was that SortedRange has enough structure to 
make it an "interesting" range, so I put it in std.range. The argument 
could go either way. Now it's gone one way. Let's move on.

Andrei
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Mehrdad <wfunction@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 18 May 2012 at 21:28:45 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
>> I guess it is now :o).
>>
>> Andrei
>>
>
> lol
>
>
> One more thing that's also annoying about this is that it's not in
> std.algorithms, but std.range...
>
> Asn't binary search an algorithm?
>

I fairly often get confused about whether to look in std.range or
std.algorithm for something.  filter is in algorithm but recurrence is in
range, for instance. I can see why but I still sometimes go to the wrong
module's documentation to look something up. There should probably be a lot
more cross referencing between the two in the documentation.  Also, I think
std.algorithm could use a mini-FAQ.  std.range is long overdue for an
entire article explaining ranges but that's a well known omission that
pretty much everyone agrees on.
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 04:24:47PM -0600, Brad Anderson wrote:
[...]
> Also, I think std.algorithm could use a mini-FAQ.  std.range is long
> overdue for an entire article explaining ranges but that's a well
> known omission that pretty much everyone agrees on.

What about the latest prerelease docs for std.range? I did clean up a
lot of stuff there and tried to explain the basic idea of what a range
is, and included a link to Andrei's article that describes the idea of
ranges in-depth.

Or is that still not good enough? How can we improve the docs further?


T

-- 
Computers aren't intelligent; they only think they are.
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On Friday, May 18, 2012 16:06:41 H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 04:24:47PM -0600, Brad Anderson wrote:
> [...]
> 
> > Also, I think std.algorithm could use a mini-FAQ. std.range is long
> > overdue for an entire article explaining ranges but that's a well
> > known omission that pretty much everyone agrees on.
> 
> What about the latest prerelease docs for std.range? I did clean up a
> lot of stuff there and tried to explain the basic idea of what a range
> is, and included a link to Andrei's article that describes the idea of
> ranges in-depth.
> 
> Or is that still not good enough? How can we improve the docs further?

Making improvements to the docs is great and definitely a good idea (I don't 
think that I've looked what you've done yet though, so I can't comment on the 
specifics of what's there), but we really should have an in-depth article on 
ranges in D and Phobos similar to Steven's article on arrays. Solid 
documentation is a good starting point, but I don't think that it would be 
appropriate to go as in-depth with the documentation as a good article would.

- Jonathan M Davis
May 18, 2012
Re: D dropped in favour of C# for PSP emulator
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:06 PM, H. S. Teoh <hsteoh@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:

> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 04:24:47PM -0600, Brad Anderson wrote:
> [...]
> > Also, I think std.algorithm could use a mini-FAQ.  std.range is long
> > overdue for an entire article explaining ranges but that's a well
> > known omission that pretty much everyone agrees on.
>
> What about the latest prerelease docs for std.range? I did clean up a
> lot of stuff there and tried to explain the basic idea of what a range
> is, and included a link to Andrei's article that describes the idea of
> ranges in-depth.
>
> Or is that still not good enough? How can we improve the docs further?
>
>
> T
>
> --
> Computers aren't intelligent; they only think they are.
>

I like it.  Looks like it's already up on the website and was included with
2.059 unless there are further changes beyond what's on
http://dlang.org/phobos/std_range.html

It's very clean now and the link to Andrei's article definitely helps.
Also, good thinking linking to the print version instead of the difficult
to read and confusing non-print version. People I link to Andrei's articles
on InformIT sometimes don't realize there is more than one page.

It's a great improvement to the documentation. I do agree with Jonathan,
though, that a official article on dlang.org like Steven's arrays article
would be a nice addition but what you've done helps enormously.
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