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May 15, 2012
Translating C const
I'm trying to figuring out how to translate const in C to D. I have 
these examples:

const int * a;
int * const b;
const int * const c;
const int * const * d;

Which I think should be translated like this:

const(int)* a;
const int* c;
const(int*)* d;

But I don't know how to translate "b". I think "b" is a const pointer to 
a mutable int, is that possible to have in D?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
May 15, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On 05/15/2012 12:36 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> I'm trying to figuring out how to translate const in C to D. I have
> these examples:
>
> const int * a;
> int * const b;
> const int * const c;
> const int * const * d;
>
> Which I think should be translated like this:
>
> const(int)* a;
> const int* c;
> const(int*)* d;
>
> But I don't know how to translate "b". I think "b" is a const pointer to
> a mutable int, is that possible to have in D?
>

Not possible in D. D's const is transitive. If b is const, then what it 
points to is also const.

Ali

-- 
D Programming Language Tutorial: http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/index.html
May 15, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On 2012-05-15 21:50, Ali Çehreli wrote:

> Not possible in D. D's const is transitive. If b is const, then what it
> points to is also const.
>
> Ali
>

Then it would be best to not declare that as const?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
May 16, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On Tue, 15 May 2012 21:58:46 +0200, Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:

> On 2012-05-15 21:50, Ali Çehreli wrote:
>
>> Not possible in D. D's const is transitive. If b is const, then what it
>> points to is also const.
>>
>> Ali
>>
>
> Then it would be best to not declare that as const?
>

That depends. Will the contents be modified?
May 16, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On 2012-05-16 07:35, Simen Kjaeraas wrote:

> That depends. Will the contents be modified?

I have no idea. I'm working on a tool for automatically translating C 
headers. I was thinking since I don't know, I better not add any 
promises that is not kept.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
May 16, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 08:50:27 Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2012-05-16 07:35, Simen Kjaeraas wrote:
> > That depends. Will the contents be modified?
> 
> I have no idea. I'm working on a tool for automatically translating C
> headers. I was thinking since I don't know, I better not add any
> promises that is not kept.

Probably true. But also, if you're talking about a const pointer to a mutable 
value, the constness of the pointer is actually irrelevant to the caller. The 
pointer will be copied when the function is called, so it doesn't matter on 
whit whether the pointer itself is const or not. What matters is whether 
what's being pointed to is const or not. So, if you have a function which 
takes a const pointer to a non-const value, then that's essentially identical 
to one that takes a non-const pointer to a non-const value as far as the 
declarations go - and for declaring extern(C) functions for use in D, that's 
generally all you care about.

- Jonathan M Davis
May 16, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On 2012-05-16 09:00, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

> Probably true. But also, if you're talking about a const pointer to a mutable
> value, the constness of the pointer is actually irrelevant to the caller. The
> pointer will be copied when the function is called, so it doesn't matter on
> whit whether the pointer itself is const or not. What matters is whether
> what's being pointed to is const or not. So, if you have a function which
> takes a const pointer to a non-const value, then that's essentially identical
> to one that takes a non-const pointer to a non-const value as far as the
> declarations go - and for declaring extern(C) functions for use in D, that's
> generally all you care about.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

Ok I see, thanks. Is that true for fields in structs and global 
variables as well?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
May 16, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On 16/05/2012 09:24, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2012-05-16 09:00, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>
>> Probably true. But also, if you're talking about a const pointer to a
>> mutable
>> value, the constness of the pointer is actually irrelevant to the
>> caller. The
>> pointer will be copied when the function is called, so it doesn't
>> matter on
>> whit whether the pointer itself is const or not. What matters is whether
>> what's being pointed to is const or not. So, if you have a function which
>> takes a const pointer to a non-const value, then that's essentially
>> identical
>> to one that takes a non-const pointer to a non-const value as far as the
>> declarations go - and for declaring extern(C) functions for use in D,
>> that's
>> generally all you care about.
>>
>> - Jonathan M Davis
>
> Ok I see, thanks. Is that true for fields in structs and global
> variables as well?
>

Yes. const pointer in c++ is some times used as short hand for saying 
that the pointer is not an array. i.e. you don't intend to increment the 
pointer or index through it.

-- 
My enormous talent is exceeded only by my outrageous laziness.
http://www.ssTk.co.uk
May 25, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 10:24:55 Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2012-05-16 09:00, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> > Probably true. But also, if you're talking about a const pointer to a
> > mutable value, the constness of the pointer is actually irrelevant to the
> > caller. The pointer will be copied when the function is called, so it
> > doesn't matter on whit whether the pointer itself is const or not. What
> > matters is whether what's being pointed to is const or not. So, if you
> > have a function which takes a const pointer to a non-const value, then
> > that's essentially identical to one that takes a non-const pointer to a
> > non-const value as far as the declarations go - and for declaring
> > extern(C) functions for use in D, that's generally all you care about.
> > 
> > - Jonathan M Davis
> 
> Ok I see, thanks. Is that true for fields in structs and global
> variables as well?

Well, the reason that it's not an issue at all with function parameters where 
it's the pointer which is const is that the const portion is being copied. 
With a struct being passed to a function as an argument, anything which is 
directly const in the struct doesn't have to stay const when passed (it's just 
the indirect stuff which would be - pointers and references - though having a 
reference as a member variable is a bit evil). However, if that same struct 
can be passed around via a pointer, then those member variables would have to 
be const.

I'm not sure that it's possible to generically constify C structs for D 
correctly. If you just use D's const on const member variables, then you won't 
be able to mutate what's pointed to by pointers which were const but pointed 
to mutable data in the C definition. In many cases, that wouldn't be an issue 
at all, but depending on what you needed to do in D, it would be. On the other 
hand, if you just didn't use const at all, then you _could_ mutate what needed 
to be mutated, _and_ it would be perfectly legal per C, because it would be 
the equivalent of casting away const in C, but if the C stuff really did treat 
it as const, and the D code mutated it, that could cause bugs.

Sadly, the most correct thing would probably be to error on the side of _not_ 
making extern(C) stuff const, because mutating what should have been const is 
legal in C (so not having it const in D and then mutating it wouldn't violate 
C's guarantees at all), whereas if you make it const, the D code is free to 
assume that the C code _isn't_ going to mutate it, and since the C code _can_ 
cast away const (or may be dealing with non-transitive const such that it can 
legally mutate some of the object), then making it const when C doesn't 
consider it const could result in D incorrectly optimizing stuff. Of course, 
since C can always cast away const regardless, having D call _any_ C functions 
which use const stuff (even if it's transitively const in C as well) could 
result in const stuff being mutated. However, if D were to just assume that 
const optimizations can't be done when dealing with extern(C) functions (I 
don't know if it does or not), then using const more heavily wouldn't be as 
big a deal.

Anyway, I suppose that that's not terribly conclusive, but the lack of ability 
to have non-transitive const declarations is a bit of a problem when dealing 
with extern(C) functions given that it has behaviors that D _doesn't_ have. As 
far as I can see, whether constifying the whole thing or making it all mutable 
makes more sense really depends on what the C function is doing and how it's 
called, which naturally doesn't go well with a tool like you're creating.
You'll probably have to go with what is _least_ likely to cause bugs and then
let the programmer adjust it as needed.

- Jonathan M Davis
May 26, 2012
Re: Translating C const
On 2012-05-26 01:17, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

>> Ok I see, thanks. Is that true for fields in structs and global
>> variables as well?
>

> Anyway, I suppose that that's not terribly conclusive, but the lack of ability
> to have non-transitive const declarations is a bit of a problem when dealing
> with extern(C) functions given that it has behaviors that D _doesn't_ have. As
> far as I can see, whether constifying the whole thing or making it all mutable
> makes more sense really depends on what the C function is doing and how it's
> called, which naturally doesn't go well with a tool like you're creating.
> You'll probably have to go with what is _least_ likely to cause bugs and then
> let the programmer adjust it as needed.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

What do you think about translating the C const to D where possible and 
then just leave it mutable in all other cases. Then assuming the C code 
will not cast away const. A user is always free to edit the bindings 
manually.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
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