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October 28, 2012
The D wiki engine must be replaced
Hi,

I wanted to edit something in the D wiki[1], had a problem and learned more 
about the used wiki engine ProWiki.

[1] http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d

- The last ProWiki release was in 2006
- This was also the first open source release
- Prowiki was apparently developed only by Helmut Leitner
- The project is dead by all standards

I consider it extremely important for the success of D to have a usable 
wiki. I don't consider the current wiki usable. I don't have a strong 
opinion about other wiki engines so I won't give a recommendation here.

I personally would prefer a wiki system based on Git to allow offline 
editing, like Ikiwiki.

I don't know the history of the wiki, but it might be adequate to thank 
Helmut Leitner for his work and efforts.

Best regards, Thomas Koch
October 28, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
Thomas Koch:

> I personally would prefer a wiki system based on Git to allow 
> offline editing, like Ikiwiki.

The Haskell community uses this one, that I have found nice to
read:
http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell

Bye,
bearophile
October 31, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
On Sunday, 28 October 2012 at 13:06:09 UTC, Thomas Koch wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wanted to edit something in the D wiki[1], had a problem and 
> learned more
> about the used wiki engine ProWiki.
>
> [1] http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d
>
>  - The last ProWiki release was in 2006
>  - This was also the first open source release
>  - Prowiki was apparently developed only by Helmut Leitner
>  - The project is dead by all standards
>
> I consider it extremely important for the success of D to have 
> a usable
> wiki. I don't consider the current wiki usable. I don't have a 
> strong
> opinion about other wiki engines so I won't give a 
> recommendation here.
>
> I personally would prefer a wiki system based on Git to allow 
> offline
> editing, like Ikiwiki.
>
> I don't know the history of the wiki, but it might be adequate 
> to thank
> Helmut Leitner for his work and efforts.
>
> Best regards, Thomas Koch

What about the wiki engine build into github?
October 31, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
Tobias Pankrath wrote:
> What about the wiki engine build into github?
The wiki engine is called Gollum[1] and is itself free software. The wiki is 
editable via the web interface and offline with a text editor. It supports 
half a douzend popular markups, including markdown, org-mode, restructured 
text, creole.
Of course the wiki could be hosted as a wiki to a separate dummy project 
under https://github.com/D-Programming-Language. Please don't make it a wiki 
for the dmd project since D is more then one compiler implementation.

Even for me as a free software advocate I'd favour this quick github 
solution over the current state. It's still possible at any time to setup an 
own instance of Gollum and host the wiki somewhere else.

[1] https://github.com/github/gollum

Best regards,

Thomas Koch
October 31, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
On Sunday, 28 October 2012 at 13:06:09 UTC, Thomas Koch wrote:
> I consider it extremely important for the success of D to have 
> a usable
> wiki. I don't consider the current wiki usable. I don't have a 
> strong
> opinion about other wiki engines so I won't give a 
> recommendation here.
>
> I personally would prefer a wiki system based on Git to allow 
> offline
> editing, like Ikiwiki.

Yes, I agree that the current wiki setup is very awkward and 
clumsy to use.

However, my preferred solution would just be a MediaWiki instance 
(with a slightly customized theme, of course), because this is 
what everybody is already familiar with from Wikipedia and other 
wiki sites.

David
October 31, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 at 13:09:10 UTC, David Nadlinger 
wrote:
> On Sunday, 28 October 2012 at 13:06:09 UTC, Thomas Koch wrote:
>> I consider it extremely important for the success of D to have 
>> a usable
>> wiki. I don't consider the current wiki usable. I don't have a 
>> strong
>> opinion about other wiki engines so I won't give a 
>> recommendation here.
>>
>> I personally would prefer a wiki system based on Git to allow 
>> offline
>> editing, like Ikiwiki.
>
> Yes, I agree that the current wiki setup is very awkward and 
> clumsy to use.
>
> However, my preferred solution would just be a MediaWiki 
> instance (with a slightly customized theme, of course), because 
> this is what everybody is already familiar with from Wikipedia 
> and other wiki sites.
>
> David

If it's just the syntax: gollum understands mediawiki. The 
advantages I see are no need to setup and administrate a custom 
solution and the core people of the D community are already using 
git.

That I don't need to use a crappy web interface if I don't want 
to is a big plus, too.
October 31, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 14:06:08 +0100
Thomas Koch <thomas@koch.ro> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I wanted to edit something in the D wiki[1], had a problem and
> learned more about the used wiki engine ProWiki.
> 
> [1] http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d
> 
>  - The last ProWiki release was in 2006
>  - This was also the first open source release
>  - Prowiki was apparently developed only by Helmut Leitner
>  - The project is dead by all standards
> 
> I consider it extremely important for the success of D to have a
> usable wiki. I don't consider the current wiki usable. I don't have a
> strong opinion about other wiki engines so I won't give a
> recommendation here.
> 
> I personally would prefer a wiki system based on Git to allow offline 
> editing, like Ikiwiki.
> 
> I don't know the history of the wiki, but it might be adequate to
> thank Helmut Leitner for his work and efforts.
> 
> Best regards, Thomas Koch

I don't really understand what's wrong with the current system (other
than the engine apparently being dead as you say...well, and that it
rejects user names that have only one capital letter as supposedly not
being camel-cased). But if there's a lot of people who feel this way
about it (and I don't know - are there?), then that could explain it's
tendency to not get updated, in which case maybe it should be changed to
something else.

What do you mean by "offline editing" though? I'm not a fan of web
interfaces in general either, but a wiki is a website, so I'm not sure
I understand what you mean. I guess I haven't used ones of these
offline editing wikis, unless you count committing/pushing a
'README.md' to github. Do you just mean something that has a published
HTTP API (like REST or something) so that arbitrary non-web interfaces
can be created?
October 31, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> I don't really understand what's wrong with the current system 
- unfamiliar syntax like no other wiki engine I've ever seen
- no way to have site names without a camelCase
- no history other then precedent version
- no watched pages
- ... surely much more if you try to really use it

> What do you mean by "offline editing" though?
Go to https://github.com/gtkd-developers/GtkD/wiki/_access
You can git clone the whole content of the wiki, read offline, edit offline 
and push back to the online wiki.
Other systems that allow that are for example ikiwiki, gitit and others
October 31, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
On 10/28/12, Thomas Koch <thomas@koch.ro> wrote:
> [1] http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d

Also it has a rather weak search system. I often can't find pages even
when I directly search for their titles. There's also the constant
spam issue. If the wiki was somehow based on Git we could review pull
requests before merging which would eliminate spam (+ we could put
that "edit this page" button (on dlang.org) for wiki pages)
November 01, 2012
Re: The D wiki engine must be replaced
Am Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:53:26 +0100
schrieb Thomas Koch <thomas@koch.ro>:

> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> > I don't really understand what's wrong with the current system 
> - unfamiliar syntax like no other wiki engine I've ever seen
+1. I think having markdown support would be a huge plus as most D
developers are already familiar with markdown syntax (github).

> - no way to have site names without a camelCase
> - no history other then precedent version
I think I managed to get the history of a wiki page, but I can't
remember how I did it. The interface is not very intuitive.

> - no watched pages
> - ... surely much more if you try to really use it
> 
> > What do you mean by "offline editing" though?
> Go to https://github.com/gtkd-developers/GtkD/wiki/_access
> You can git clone the whole content of the wiki, read offline, edit
> offline and push back to the online wiki.

I like to have a preview when editing wiki pages (no wysiwyg though),
but as long as we have both online / offline editing that's no problem.
> Other systems that allow that are for example ikiwiki, gitit and
> others
>
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