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December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12, Vladimir Panteleev <vladimir@thecybershadow.net> wrote:
> 1. It is a free service provided by a third party.
>     As their TOS states, they may cancel or limit the service at
> any time without prior warning.

Yep, remember how DMD binaries were finally hosted on Github, which
had faster downloads than digitalmars.com. And then they decided to
kill the feature.
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 9:55 AM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
> On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 14:22:27 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> Yes. I very strongly believe we need to have a form of
>> community-provided contents. (Not sure whether disqus is the most
>> appropriate vehicle, but since it's the only one that's currently
>> implemented, it's by definition the best we have.)
>
> We also have a wiki, and the existing links to it on each page.

We've had that for a while, wasn't successful.

Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 10:22 AM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
> Sönke has listed the advantages provided by Disqus. I'll list a few
> disadvantages (some of which may be obvious) for consideration:
[snip]

Good points. I, too, think a customized, highly integrated version of 
forum.dlang.org would be preferable. Perhaps integration with newsgroup 
wouldn't be necessary, i.e. no need to make posts made on the 
documentation pages appear on the regular fora.

Do you think it would be easy to implement and maintain the features I 
discussed in http://goo.gl/G4pJ9? Let's not forget that we'd benefit of 
future improvements to disqus (if any) by default, whereas if we build 
it we need to maintain and improve it.


Thanks,

Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 17:37:37 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 12/29/12 9:55 AM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
>> On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 14:22:27 UTC, Andrei 
>> Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> Yes. I very strongly believe we need to have a form of
>>> community-provided contents. (Not sure whether disqus is the 
>>> most
>>> appropriate vehicle, but since it's the only one that's 
>>> currently
>>> implemented, it's by definition the best we have.)
>>
>> We also have a wiki, and the existing links to it on each page.
>
> We've had that for a while, wasn't successful.

How did you reach that conclusion?

When comparing the amount of contributions, we should take into 
account that D is not as popular as PHP or jQuery.

The previous system used ProWiki, the problems of which have 
already been discussed in depth. One of the more important ones, 
as it pertains to discussion, is that it did not provide a simple 
way to monitor all changes to comment pages (it does not seem to 
have an equivalent of MediaWiki's Special:RecentChanges and 
RSS/ATOM feed). Thus, questions could go unanswered for months, 
until someone actually noticed that a question has been asked.

With MediaWiki, I have the option of integrating edit 
notifications into DFeed, and turn them into IRC notifications. 
This has allowed #d users to answer StackOverflow questions 
within minutes of them being posted. (I have delayed this to 
avoid pointless flooding while the bulk of initial edits 
occurred.)
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 12:54 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
> On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 17:37:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> On 12/29/12 9:55 AM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 29 December 2012 at 14:22:27 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
>>> wrote:
>>>> Yes. I very strongly believe we need to have a form of
>>>> community-provided contents. (Not sure whether disqus is the most
>>>> appropriate vehicle, but since it's the only one that's currently
>>>> implemented, it's by definition the best we have.)
>>>
>>> We also have a wiki, and the existing links to it on each page.
>>
>> We've had that for a while, wasn't successful.
>
> How did you reach that conclusion?

By recknoning that next to no library documentation content has been 
produced on the Wiki.

> When comparing the amount of contributions, we should take into account
> that D is not as popular as PHP or jQuery.

Wasn't comparing against those - just saying it's not happening. FWIW in 
my opinion: click on a link to get somewhere vs. content integrated on 
the page - big difference.

> The previous system used ProWiki, the problems of which have already
> been discussed in depth. One of the more important ones, as it pertains
> to discussion, is that it did not provide a simple way to monitor all
> changes to comment pages (it does not seem to have an equivalent of
> MediaWiki's Special:RecentChanges and RSS/ATOM feed). Thus, questions
> could go unanswered for months, until someone actually noticed that a
> question has been asked.
>
> With MediaWiki, I have the option of integrating edit notifications into
> DFeed, and turn them into IRC notifications. This has allowed #d users
> to answer StackOverflow questions within minutes of them being posted.
> (I have delayed this to avoid pointless flooding while the bulk of
> initial edits occurred.)

That sounds great.


Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/12 12:54 PM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
> With MediaWiki, I have the option of integrating edit notifications into
> DFeed, and turn them into IRC notifications. This has allowed #d users
> to answer StackOverflow questions within minutes of them being posted.
> (I have delayed this to avoid pointless flooding while the bulk of
> initial edits occurred.)

I should add that I just explored disqus.com's moderation and related 
amenities are pretty compelling. You'd be looking at a fair amount of 
work to implement such. (Not to discourage you or anything as I do agree 
with the advantages of in-house.)

Andrei
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/2012 8:03 AM, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
> Walter removes such posts regularly. The problem is that forum.dlang.org caches
> them indefinitely. I'm working on this problem right now.

Thanks for working on that. His posts are ugly and make us all look bad having 
them on the front page of the forum.
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/2012 5:47 AM, Chris wrote:
> As regards PHP I have to admit that I hardly ever use the code examples in the
> comment section - too basic and too messy. The best real world PHP code is still
> either on Stackoverflow or on webprogrammers' homepages, articles etc. But that
> is because PHP is used by amateurs and professionals alike, I think, (cf.
> http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/all/all). In the case of D, I
> trust that the code samples will be of high quality given that the D community
> consists mainly of programming and computer science experts (and I exclude
> myself here!) or at least people with a keen interest in the subject. D could
> definitely do with more code samples especially those showing clever and optimal
> ways of doing things (commenting on the pros and cons like on Stackoverflow).

The interesting thing is I am always trying to write the canonical great 
example, yet I am always unhappy with it later because I've run into a better 
way of doing things.
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/2012 6:15 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> 5. Both have voting, and PHP sorts comments in decreasing order by upvotes. Can
> we also sort the same? Also, can we add some randomness (e.g. randomly push one
> of the comments in a top position) such that new good content has a chance to be
> upvoted?

This is an interesting issue. I think an interesting metric would be a 
combination of number of votes which add to a ranking score, and age of the post 
which subtracts from it.

Or maybe simply have a couple of buttons which change the sort order:

1. by vote
2. newest first
3. by karma of the poster
4. by number of posts by the poster
5. by a "house blend" of the above (!) If Sönke wants to get really creative, 
have an "equalizer" with four sliders to control the weight of 1..4.
December 29, 2012
Re: Social comments integrated with dlang.org
On 12/29/2012 10:08 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> FWIW in my
> opinion: click on a link to get somewhere vs. content integrated on the page -
> big difference.

In my opinion, too.
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