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February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
On 2013-02-17 15:28, Sönke Ludwig wrote:

> I see some things like windows/non-windows specific flags and a lot of
> path handling and infrastructure stuff (which the build tool would do
> itself).

The D script contains a lot of utility functions that would be available 
in the build tool. It emulates the rakefile to stay backwards compatible.

> Anything in particular that you think is not easily doable with
> the data driven approach?

I don't know the build scripts very well since I have not written them. 
It has several targets. Base, swt, snippets and so on.

> BTW, I think build files like these are the perfect example for what I
> mean with complexity and scaring away people. I'm sure it all makes
> sense, but my vision of a build system is that it goes out of the
> developers way instead of forcing him to maintain a whole sister project
> alongside the actual code.

I really hate that build script. I really hope that a proper build 
system will handle DWT with just a simple build script.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
On 2013-02-17 15:40, Dicebot wrote:
> Don't really have a vision how it will look like in practice based on
> released data, but looking at current discussion I'd like to state that
> I am most interested in a centralized library/app list, dependency
> tracker and an easy way to get sources. Support for a popular build
> systems may be fine as a bonus, but only as an added feature, with no
> coupling. I'd hate to see a ruby gem (or similar) hell pushed as a "D
> way". Packaging is best done (and should be) by OS package manager, not
> hundreds of languages-specific managers. Good language package manager
> in my opinion is just an information source for OS package builders.

There are no package managers out of the box for Mac OS X or Windows.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
On Sunday, 17 February 2013 at 15:08:08 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> There are no package managers out of the box for Mac OS X or 
> Windows.

Thus I admit that adding _possibility_ of get&build in one box 
may be useful. But it makes no sense to make linux users suffer 
(by making it The Way to Do Things)  because of design mistakes 
of other OSes. After all, as far as I am aware, Windows gets a 
package manager in form of application store in last released 
version, doesn't it?
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
Am Sun, 17 Feb 2013 00:20:48 -0800
schrieb Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg@gmx.com>:

> On Sunday, February 17, 2013 09:12:00 Sönke Ludwig wrote:
> > BTW, I think YAML as a superset of JSON is also a good contender
> > with nice syntax features, but also much more complex.
> 
> It's also whitespace-sensitive, which is downright evil IMHO. I'd
> take JSON over YAML any day.
> 
> - Jonathan M Davis

Are you sure? YAML 1.1 required whitespace after comma and in some more
cases, but YAML 1.2 dropped that to be 100% compatible with JSON. If
you write JSON you have valid YAML and you can write YAML that is valid
JSON.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML#JSON
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML#cite_note-9
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
> There are no package managers out of the box for Mac OS X or Windows.
> 

That's right, so we have to provide a custom way. Which also is
necessary for non root installs and for experimentation and trying out
(your own) packages. Nevertheless I think in the long run it should not
be a problem to integrate with:

http://openbuildservice.org/

in order to also provide packages for distributions? Ideally the build
systems configuration contains everything needed to automatically create
a spec file for Fedora, for example.
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
Am Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:02:02 +0100
schrieb Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com>:

> On 2013-02-16 21:02, Johannes Pfau wrote:
> 
> > I think splitting DUB into a package manger and build tool would be
> > a good idea.
> 
> Exactly. But I see no reason for communicating with processes. Just
> make them both into libraries and call functions plain functions.
> 

As long as the build script is written in D (or probably even C/C++) a
library is really the best solution. If you want to support other build
scripts (python/waf, scons, ...) providing a command line tool is nice.
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
On 2013-02-17 16:14, Johannes Pfau wrote:
> Am Sun, 17 Feb 2013 00:20:48 -0800
> schrieb Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg@gmx.com>:
>
>> On Sunday, February 17, 2013 09:12:00 Sönke Ludwig wrote:
>>> BTW, I think YAML as a superset of JSON is also a good contender
>>> with nice syntax features, but also much more complex.
>>
>> It's also whitespace-sensitive, which is downright evil IMHO. I'd
>> take JSON over YAML any day.
>>
>> - Jonathan M Davis
>
> Are you sure? YAML 1.1 required whitespace after comma and in some more
> cases, but YAML 1.2 dropped that to be 100% compatible with JSON. If
> you write JSON you have valid YAML and you can write YAML that is valid
> JSON.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML#JSON
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML#cite_note-9
>

Yes, this is valid YAML:

point:
  x: 1
  y: 2

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
On 2013-02-17 16:13, Dicebot wrote:

> Thus I admit that adding _possibility_ of get&build in one box may be
> useful. But it makes no sense to make linux users suffer (by making it
> The Way to Do Things)  because of design mistakes of other OSes. After
> all, as far as I am aware, Windows gets a package manager in form of
> application store in last released version, doesn't it?

1. It hardly doubt that you can put libraries there
2. So suddenly D will require Windows 8 to use? Not going to happen

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
On Sun, 2013-02-17 at 16:08 +0100, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
[…]
> There are no package managers out of the box for Mac OS X or Windows.

The MacPorts, Fink, and Brew folks almost certainly dispute the first of
those claims. ;-)

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
February 17, 2013
Re: The DUB package manager
On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 16:14:25 +0100
Johannes Pfau <nospam@example.com> wrote:

> Am Sun, 17 Feb 2013 00:20:48 -0800
> schrieb Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg@gmx.com>:
> > 
> > It's also whitespace-sensitive, which is downright evil IMHO. I'd
> > take JSON over YAML any day.
> > 
> 
> Are you sure? YAML 1.1 required whitespace after comma and in some
> more cases, but YAML 1.2 dropped that to be 100% compatible with
> JSON. If you write JSON you have valid YAML and you can write YAML
> that is valid JSON.
> 

The JSON-compatible subset of YAML is whitespace-insensitive, but
indent-scoping is one of the key features YAML adds on top of that.
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