On 04/18/2013 07:50 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> ...
> I'm actually surprised that a lot more bikers aren't killed around here,
> although many are. I walk a lot, and many times I've had to step lively
> off of the road.
>

And I thought the bus factor was just a metaphor!

On Thursday, 18 April 2013 at 18:45:56 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:50:55AM -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 4/18/2013 10:42 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote:
>> >I certainly don't mind winding and narrow.   Cycling isn't inherently
>> >dangerous, but the two main things that don't help are - lack of
>> >cycle paths; careless or inconsiderate drivers.
>> 
>> When you have cars brushing by your elbow at 40 mph, well, I thought
>> that was very dangerous. When going around curves, cars routinely
>> cut into the inside shoulder. They'll do it on blind corners, too.
>> 
>> I'm actually surprised that a lot more bikers aren't killed around
>> here, although many are. I walk a lot, and many times I've had to
>> step lively off of the road.
>
> Speaking of careless drivers... not long ago up here in Canuckland (a
> few hours' drive from Seattle, incidentally), I almost got run over by a
> car *while crossing a crosswalk with flashing lights*. There was another
> vehicle which had come to a stop in the outer lane, which may have
> obscured me, but the car in the inner lane obviously didn't see me and
> didn't notice the big flashing lights above the crosswalk (and didn't
> consider why the vehicle on her right had stopped at a crosswalk with
> big flashing lights above).
>
> Fortunately I was keeping an eye on it (I wasn't sure if it was slowing
> down so I hesitated). The driver screamed (oh yeah did she scream -- I
> could hear it through her closed windows) and slammed the brakes when
> she saw me, but couldn't stop in time; I stepped back just in time as
> she passed in front of me about 1-2 feet at the most.
>
> Since then, I no longer assume that red lights, pedestrian walk signs,
> or crosswalk flashing lights mean anything to drivers. You might pay for
> that assumption with your life. *shudder*
>
>
> T

In quite a bit of mainland europe, red lights only apply to straight on traffic and not to people turning. The number of times I almost got killed by cars turning into me in a single week in Rome was ridiculous!

On 18 April 2013 18:50, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:

> On 4/18/2013 10:42 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote:
>
>> I certainly don't mind winding and narrow.   Cycling isn't inherently
>> dangerous,
>> but the two main things that don't help are - lack of cycle paths;
>> careless or
>> inconsiderate drivers.
>>
>
> When you have cars brushing by your elbow at 40 mph, well, I thought that was very dangerous. When going around curves, cars routinely cut into the inside shoulder. They'll do it on blind corners, too.
>
>
Been there and done that with a few buses and lorries.  Also had a few near misses where the shear force of the wind almost derailed me into the vehicle passing.  Other than that, I quite happily sit in the drag of a car going 40mph downhill, or scrape through the busy traffic of a city.

-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';

On 18 April 2013 19:01, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:

> On 4/18/2013 10:50 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>
>> I'm actually surprised that a lot more bikers aren't killed around here,
>> although many are. I walk a lot, and many times I've had to step lively
>> off of
>> the road.
>>
>
> There's also a politically powerful bike lobby around here, but I don't think this is a problem that can be solved by politics.
>
>
Cycle paths and routes can still be developed through state funding.  One of the best things for cyclists in the UK is the national cycle network, which through experience is a great way to get around the country.


-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';

On 18 April 2013 21:31, Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw@ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On 18 April 2013 19:01, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/18/2013 10:50 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>> I'm actually surprised that a lot more bikers aren't killed around here,
>>> although many are. I walk a lot, and many times I've had to step lively
>>> off of
>>> the road.
>>>
>>
>> There's also a politically powerful bike lobby around here, but I don't think this is a problem that can be solved by politics.
>>
>>
> Cycle paths and routes can still be developed through state funding.  One of the best things for cyclists in the UK is the national cycle network, which through experience is a great way to get around the country.
>
>
... if time is most certainly not of the essence. :o)



Regards
-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';

On Thursday, 18 April 2013 at 20:31:14 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
> On 18 April 2013 19:01, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/18/2013 10:50 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>> I'm actually surprised that a lot more bikers aren't killed around here,
>>> although many are. I walk a lot, and many times I've had to step lively
>>> off of
>>> the road.
>>>
>>
>> There's also a politically powerful bike lobby around here, but I don't
>> think this is a problem that can be solved by politics.
>>
>>
> Cycle paths and routes can still be developed through state funding.  One
> of the best things for cyclists in the UK is the national cycle network,
> which through experience is a great way to get around the country.

It's amazing what the netherlands have done for cycling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_the_Netherlands

On 4/18/2013 1:31 PM, Iain Buclaw wrote:
> Cycle paths and routes can still be developed through state funding.  One of the
> best things for cyclists in the UK is the national cycle network, which through
> experience is a great way to get around the country.

I nearly got run over several times just walking around London!

On 4/18/2013 11:44 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Since then, I no longer assume that red lights, pedestrian walk signs,
> or crosswalk flashing lights mean anything to drivers. You might pay for
> that assumption with your life. *shudder*

The phrase is you don't want to be right - dead right.

The bikers and pedestrians that resolutely expect me to dodge them amaze me. They never even look. There'll be 4 abreast walking, sticking out into the lane. To pass them, the driver is forced into the left lane. Of course they never look to see if the drivers actually will.

I drove around a blind corner once (on a fairly major road) and there's a guy on a bike in the middle, stopped, towing his baby behind the bike. I couldn't believe it! I stopped and yelled at him I was so upset - he was shocked that there was anything stupid about what he was doing.

Another time, a woman is pushing her baby carriage down the center of the lane. She didn't even look back as I drove up behind her. I stopped and yelled at her. She said "well, if my number is up, my number is up."

Unbelievable.

My dad used to irritate the heck out of me by driving down residential streets at about 10 mph. I understand now why he did that.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 02:30:04PM -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 4/18/2013 11:44 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >Since then, I no longer assume that red lights, pedestrian walk signs, or crosswalk flashing lights mean anything to drivers. You might pay for that assumption with your life. *shudder*
> 
> The phrase is you don't want to be right - dead right.

Right, I'd rather be alive and wrong than *dead* right.


> The bikers and pedestrians that resolutely expect me to dodge them amaze me. They never even look. There'll be 4 abreast walking, sticking out into the lane. To pass them, the driver is forced into the left lane. Of course they never look to see if the drivers actually will.

I grew up in a country where drivers will deliberately step on the gas if you dare jay-walk in front of them. On this continent, however, it seems the opposite prevails -- drivers are expected to go out of their way to be nice to you. Rumor has it that the rate of pedestrian-related accidents for BC residents are highest *outside* the province. Apparently people here come to take driver niceness for granted, and then they go out into the *ahem* real world and they get run over.

*shrug*


> I drove around a blind corner once (on a fairly major road) and there's a guy on a bike in the middle, stopped, towing his baby behind the bike. I couldn't believe it! I stopped and yelled at him I was so upset - he was shocked that there was anything stupid about what he was doing.
> 
> Another time, a woman is pushing her baby carriage down the center of the lane. She didn't even look back as I drove up behind her. I stopped and yelled at her. She said "well, if my number is up, my number is up."
> 
> Unbelievable.
> 
> My dad used to irritate the heck out of me by driving down residential streets at about 10 mph. I understand now why he did that.

Yeah, up here in the Great White North we also have our fair share of people who do stupid things on the road... like jay-walk across a busy street at night wearing dark clothes, or ride a bike down an unlit street at night *without* any blinkers or lights of any sort (or helmet, for that matter). Worst are those who would walk in front of a moving car and then yell at the driver for not stopping for them (this actually happened to my then-fiancée once -- I was in the car, and quite speechless at the pedestrian's audacity).

Of course, back in Asia where traffic rules are only recommendations, a different kind of stupidity prevails... like zigzagging a moped through moving traffic with a baby in one hand and bulging bags of groceries in the other (and another child clinging to the back without a helmet).

Well, it looks like my random signature Perl script has picked out an appropriate quote for the occasion. ;-)


T

-- 
Do not reason with the unreasonable; you lose by definition.

On Thursday, 18 April 2013 at 21:30:06 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 4/18/2013 11:44 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>> Since then, I no longer assume that red lights, pedestrian walk signs,
>> or crosswalk flashing lights mean anything to drivers. You might pay for
>> that assumption with your life. *shudder*
>
> The phrase is you don't want to be right - dead right.
>
> The bikers and pedestrians that resolutely expect me to dodge them amaze me. They never even look. There'll be 4 abreast walking, sticking out into the lane. To pass them, the driver is forced into the left lane. Of course they never look to see if the drivers actually will.
>
> I drove around a blind corner once (on a fairly major road) and there's a guy on a bike in the middle, stopped, towing his baby behind the bike. I couldn't believe it! I stopped and yelled at him I was so upset - he was shocked that there was anything stupid about what he was doing.
>
> Another time, a woman is pushing her baby carriage down the center of the lane. She didn't even look back as I drove up behind her. I stopped and yelled at her. She said "well, if my number is up, my number is up."
>
> Unbelievable.
>
> My dad used to irritate the heck out of me by driving down residential streets at about 10 mph. I understand now why he did that.

I agree with your sentiment. People are nightmarishly illogical. Maybe they feel more like Achilles, whose destiny was greatness, followed by death, than, say, Socrates, who got killed because he made too much sense. If *I* have to go down, I hope will be more like Socrates than Achilles.