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December 05, 2012
Better forum
I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will not 
post as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to get the 
message or for it to be announced.

IMO there are much better forum software out there that would 
make it easier to communicate about D than the current method.

http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy to 
setup.

The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!
December 05, 2012
Re: Better forum
On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 18:24:04 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
> I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will 
> not post as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to 
> get the message or for it to be announced.
>
> IMO there are much better forum software out there that would 
> make it easier to communicate about D than the current method.
>
> http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy 
> to setup.
>
> The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!

Here's another split thread?

My understanding is that the forum is something made out of an 
nntp news server, and some people use a newsreader client instead 
of way us web based forum folks go about it. Why use nntp for 
this forum?

--rt
December 05, 2012
Re: Better forum
On Wednesday, December 05, 2012 21:42:00 Rob T wrote:
> On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 18:24:04 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
> > I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will
> > not post as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to
> > get the message or for it to be announced.
> > 
> > IMO there are much better forum software out there that would
> > make it easier to communicate about D than the current method.
> > 
> > http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy
> > to setup.
> > 
> > The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!
> 
> Here's another split thread?
> 
> My understanding is that the forum is something made out of an
> nntp news server, and some people use a newsreader client instead
> of way us web based forum folks go about it. Why use nntp for
> this forum?

There are 3 ways to access this newsgroup:

1. As an nntp newsgroup.

2. As a mailing list.

3. Via forum.dlang.org which puts a forum interface on top of the nntp 
newsgroup.

Personally, I use #2 and would hate to use either of the others. But 
regardless, we're not moving to some other forum software. I don't know if 
there even _is_ any other forum software that sits on top of an nntp 
newsgroup, and we're not moving off of an nntp newsgroup. On top of that, the 
software that forum.dlang.org uses is written in D by one of the posters here, 
and we've gotten quite a lot of good press for how fast and responsive it is. 
I don't doubt that it could be improved, but we're not getting rid of it in 
favor of something else, and whatever improvements are made to it need to not 
conflict with the fact that it's just one of the ways to interact with the 
newsgroup (e.g. adding voting would make no sense, because only 
forum.dlang.org would see it).

- Jonathan M Davis
December 05, 2012
Re: Better forum
12/6/2012 12:42 AM, Rob T пишет:
> On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 18:24:04 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
>> I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will not post
>> as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to get the message
>> or for it to be announced.
>>
>> IMO there are much better forum software out there that would make it
>> easier to communicate about D than the current method.
>>
>> http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy to setup.
>>
>> The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!
>
> Here's another split thread?
>
> My understanding is that the forum is something made out of an nntp news
> server, and some people use a newsreader client instead of way us web
> based forum folks go about it. Why use nntp for this forum?
>

It's the other way around - it's an NNTP server originally.
The web forum is a recent addition as no extra hassle way to start using 
it. The hassle being installing newsreader & getting it to work properly 
on all machines you may want to use.

In the end it opens the newsgroup to a wider audience I guess.

Once I got used to threading I'd hate to switch to the "stream of 
messages" style that typical web forums produce.

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
December 05, 2012
Re: Better forum
Am 05.12.2012 21:55, schrieb Dmitry Olshansky:
> 12/6/2012 12:42 AM, Rob T пишет:
>> On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 18:24:04 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
>>> I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will not post
>>> as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to get the message
>>> or for it to be announced.
>>>
>>> IMO there are much better forum software out there that would make it
>>> easier to communicate about D than the current method.
>>>
>>> http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy to setup.
>>>
>>> The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!
>>
>> Here's another split thread?
>>
>> My understanding is that the forum is something made out of an nntp news
>> server, and some people use a newsreader client instead of way us web
>> based forum folks go about it. Why use nntp for this forum?
>>
>
> It's the other way around - it's an NNTP server originally.
> The web forum is a recent addition as no extra hassle way to start using
> it. The hassle being installing newsreader & getting it to work properly
> on all machines you may want to use.
>
> In the end it opens the newsgroup to a wider audience I guess.
>
> Once I got used to threading I'd hate to switch to the "stream of
> messages" style that typical web forums produce.
>

I love NNTP, and loath the plague of web newsgroups.

The web access is very good to access the forums when I am on computers 
where I don't have the proper rights to have a newsreader installed, but
that is about it on my case.

Maybe I am too old school, but I like my usenet.

--
Paulo
December 05, 2012
Re: Better forum
On 12/5/12 1:24 PM, js.mdnq wrote:
> I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will not post
> as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to get the message or
> for it to be announced.
>
> IMO there are much better forum software out there that would make it
> easier to communicate about D than the current method.
>
> http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy to setup.
>
> The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!

I think that's a largely solved problem, as most who use 
http://forum.dlang.org love it over other systems, and for those who 
aren't into web forums there are good alternatives.

Of the features listed on http://www.mybb.com/features, it would be 
great to include voting. Other than that, clearly we should on fixing 
the issues with the system (as opposed to switching to another one).


Andrei
December 05, 2012
Re: Better forum
On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 21:55:19 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 12/5/12 1:24 PM, js.mdnq wrote:
>> I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will 
>> not post
>> as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to get the 
>> message or
>> for it to be announced.
>>
>> IMO there are much better forum software out there that would 
>> make it
>> easier to communicate about D than the current method.
>>
>> http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy 
>> to setup.
>>
>> The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!
>
> I think that's a largely solved problem, as most who use 
> http://forum.dlang.org love it over other systems, and for 
> those who aren't into web forums there are good alternatives.
>
> Of the features listed on http://www.mybb.com/features, it 
> would be great to include voting. Other than that, clearly we 
> should on fixing the issues with the system (as opposed to 
> switching to another one).
>
>
> Andrei

It would seem to me that nntp is somewhat dead(little support 
from software devs) and while I like nntp to some degree it just 
lacks too many feature compared to BB's.

I would think it would be better to have a BB forum then try to 
interface to that(it should be relatively easy). This way you 
have all the modern features of a BB system but still allow 
legacy users to get their fix the way they want it.

Basically your stuck with the nntp protocol and trying to upgrade 
it is futile. (and talk about spam, newsgroups are loaded with 
them).

Since BB's are pretty popular, free, and usually well designed, I 
wouldn't see why it would hurt to even have them in parallel. 
Eventually the legacy users will come over from/to the dark side 
when they see how much better it is.
December 06, 2012
Re: Better forum
On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 20:42:01 UTC, Rob T wrote:
> On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 18:24:04 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
>> I have a lot of trouble with the forum. Many times a msg will 
>> not post as it sits in a cycle waiting for the nntp server to 
>> get the message or for it to be announced.
>>
>> IMO there are much better forum software out there that would 
>> make it easier to communicate about D than the current method.
>>
>> http://www.mybb.com/ is free, pretty good, and relatively easy 
>> to setup.
>>
>> The ability to edit a post makes life much easier too!
>
> Here's another split thread?

No, the user has simply submitted the same post twice (because it 
was impossible to tell if the first one got through - see 
http://forum.dlang.org/post/yodabgfvkapgmrpeeugu@forum.dlang.org).
December 06, 2012
Re: Better forum
On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 22:32:41 UTC, js.mdnq wrote:
> Basically your stuck with the nntp protocol and trying to 
> upgrade it is futile. (and talk about spam, newsgroups are 
> loaded with them).
>
> Since BB's are pretty popular, free, and usually well designed, 
> I wouldn't see why it would hurt to even have them in parallel. 
> Eventually the legacy users will come over from/to the dark 
> side when they see how much better it is.

We've had big debates about this a couple of times over the years 
(I'm firmly in the BB camp and this group is the only reason I 
have a newsreader installed). But each debate failed to even make 
a dent. The people you need to convince aren't going to be 
convinced. Period. So we're going to be stuck with NNTP for a 
long time to come.
December 06, 2012
Re: Better forum
On Wednesday, 5 December 2012 at 21:55:19 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:

> I think that's a largely solved problem, as most who use 
> http://forum.dlang.org love it over other systems, and for 
> those who aren't into web forums there are good alternatives.

I'm looking at the URL in my browser, and it's using 
http://forum.dlang.org.

Sorry but I don't love it. I can't edit posts, it frequently 
hangs when refreshing, hangs when posting, and it breaks up 
threads frequently (like this one), which is rather unpleasant if 
you're trying to follow a lengthy conversation.

My guess is that the people using a newsreader are OK, but a ton 
of people prefer to use web browsers, I would hazard a guess that 
most people who use the Internet don't even know what a 
newsreader is.

> Of the features listed on http://www.mybb.com/features, it 
> would be great to include voting. Other than that, clearly we 
> should on fixing the issues with the system (as opposed to 
> switching to another one).

Someone really needs to take a look at what's going wrong and try 
to fix it, and if it cannot be fixed, than I would say an 
alternative should be seriously considered.

--rt
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