Vladimir's talk on Dustmite is now up on Reddit. We ship Dustmite as part of the dmd distribution.

But it's a secret.

Just try to find out anything or any mention of Dustmite on dlang.org.

The idea "Build It, and They Will Come" is a stupid hollywood myth. We cannot go on with creating fantastic, revolutionary tools and then keep them a secret.

Dustmite is just one example of this, but it's on top of my head because I went looking for a link to it to go with the Reddit pointer to the video. It fits in quite nicely with my previous antics at discovering there were no links to gdc or ldc instructions, and no mention anywhere that to get gdc on Ubuntu, one only needs to type:

   sudo apt-get install gdc

All you guys building stuff - it's all WASTED EFFORT if you don't make it findable by users. /rant

Coincidentally, this just got posted:

"I thought I had a pretty good idea of what was happening in the D community - why haven't I heard more about digger? Sounds like a very useful. Has it only been a "one post to D.Announce"? Is it planned to be added to dtools? I could only find a reference as a link on wiki.dlang.org - no page by itself.
You should really promote the tools you make!"



http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2a8xf4/dconf_2014_day_2_talk_4_reducing_d_bugs_by/cisuuag

Am Wed, 09 Jul 2014 12:21:21 -0700
schrieb Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com>:

> It fits in
> quite nicely with my previous antics at discovering there were no
> links to gdc or ldc instructions, and no mention anywhere that to get
> gdc on Ubuntu, one only needs to type:
> 
>     sudo apt-get install gdc
> 
> All you guys building stuff - it's all WASTED EFFORT if you don't make it findable by users. /rant

We link all linux distribution packages from
http://gdcproject.org/downloads/
and I'd expect a linux user to know how to install a package for his
distribution if he knows the package name.

It's also mentioned on http://wiki.dlang.org/GDC and http://dlang.org/download.html links to http://gdcproject.org/downloads/ as well.

The dlang page doesn't list all downloads or distribution packages, but I don't want to duplicate information on two pages and keep them synchronized and up-to-date.


I think there's lots of valuable information on the wiki btw, which is often overlooked for some reason. For contributors, wiki.dlang.org is much nicer as you don't need ddoc, git, push rights/somebody to merge pull requests, etc.

On 7/9/14, 2:46 PM, Johannes Pfau wrote:
> Am Wed, 09 Jul 2014 12:21:21 -0700
> schrieb Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com>:
>
>> It fits in
>> quite nicely with my previous antics at discovering there were no
>> links to gdc or ldc instructions, and no mention anywhere that to get
>> gdc on Ubuntu, one only needs to type:
>>
>>      sudo apt-get install gdc
>>
>> All you guys building stuff - it's all WASTED EFFORT if you don't
>> make it findable by users. /rant
>
> We link all linux distribution packages from
> http://gdcproject.org/downloads/
> and I'd expect a linux user to know how to install a package for his
> distribution if he knows the package name.
>
> It's also mentioned on http://wiki.dlang.org/GDC and
> http://dlang.org/download.html links to
> http://gdcproject.org/downloads/ as well.
>
> The dlang page doesn't list all downloads or distribution packages, but
> I don't want to duplicate information on two pages and keep them
> synchronized and up-to-date.

That strikes me like a suboptimal metric to optimize for.

> I think there's lots of valuable information on the wiki btw, which is
> often overlooked for some reason. For contributors, wiki.dlang.org is
> much nicer as you don't need ddoc, git, push rights/somebody to merge
> pull requests, etc.

dlang.org is authoritative. Again optimizing for ease of contribution is nice but the real prize is propagating information to the end user.


Andrei

On Wed, Jul 09, 2014 at 02:52:34PM -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 7/9/14, 2:46 PM, Johannes Pfau wrote:
> >Am Wed, 09 Jul 2014 12:21:21 -0700
[...]
> >I think there's lots of valuable information on the wiki btw, which is often overlooked for some reason. For contributors, wiki.dlang.org is much nicer as you don't need ddoc, git, push rights/somebody to merge pull requests, etc.
> 
> dlang.org is authoritative. Again optimizing for ease of contribution is nice but the real prize is propagating information to the end user.
[...]

So why not link to select wiki pages from dlang.org?


T

-- 
Why waste time reinventing the wheel, when you could be reinventing the engine? -- Damian Conway

On 7/9/2014 2:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> The dlang page doesn't list all downloads or distribution packages, but
>> I don't want to duplicate information on two pages and keep them
>> synchronized and up-to-date.
>
> That strikes me like a suboptimal metric to optimize for.
>
>> I think there's lots of valuable information on the wiki btw, which is
>> often overlooked for some reason. For contributors, wiki.dlang.org is
>> much nicer as you don't need ddoc, git, push rights/somebody to merge
>> pull requests, etc.
>
> dlang.org is authoritative. Again optimizing for ease of contribution is nice
> but the real prize is propagating information to the end user.

+1 and I want to emphasize that I could find no mention of Dustmite on dlang.org.

Now, for gdc and ldc. Go to dlang.org. Where do I go? I click on "Downloads & Tools". This takes me to:

   https://dlang.org/download.html

Where are there any instructions? There's a bunch of links to binaries. I see nothing for LDC. I see nothing for DMD. I see a link on the left to "GDC D Compiler". Clicking on that, I see nothing mentioning that I can get it on Ubuntu with:

    sudo apt-get install gdc

Not even when I click on "downloads" followed by "Ubuntu".

The "Linux notes" should say "Linux DMD Compiler", etc.

"DMD Script Shell" should say "rdmd script shell".

"Debugger" leads to "HTTP 404 Not Found" (this is pretty embarrassing)

The navigation on that page needs a complete do-over and the most basic things people will be looking for are missing.

On 7/9/2014 2:59 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> So why not link to select wiki pages from dlang.org?

Not a bad idea. Want to take charge of doing this?

On 7/9/14, 2:59 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 09, 2014 at 02:52:34PM -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> On 7/9/14, 2:46 PM, Johannes Pfau wrote:
>>> Am Wed, 09 Jul 2014 12:21:21 -0700
> [...]
>>> I think there's lots of valuable information on the wiki btw, which
>>> is often overlooked for some reason. For contributors, wiki.dlang.org
>>> is much nicer as you don't need ddoc, git, push rights/somebody to
>>> merge pull requests, etc.
>>
>> dlang.org is authoritative. Again optimizing for ease of contribution
>> is nice but the real prize is propagating information to the end user.
> [...]
>
> So why not link to select wiki pages from dlang.org?

Where's the pull request?

Back when I had just started in grad school, I was talking to an older fellow student with whom I shared the adviser. I mentioned the advisor had mentioned in passing I should do something (forgot what, maybe read a paper or register for a conference) but didn't follow through with it. My labmate stopped me in my tracks: "Dude, as soon as something reached the level of consciousness of the adviser enough to be mentioned, you take it and run with it. Adviser won't bother insisting about it."

Walter and I are busy enough as is working on D to NOT have new work cut out for us. Please steal any work you can from us.


Andrei

On Wednesday, 9 July 2014 at 22:48:43 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 7/9/2014 2:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> The dlang page doesn't list all downloads or distribution packages, but
>>> I don't want to duplicate information on two pages and keep them
>>> synchronized and up-to-date.
>>
>> That strikes me like a suboptimal metric to optimize for.
>>
>>> I think there's lots of valuable information on the wiki btw, which is
>>> often overlooked for some reason. For contributors, wiki.dlang.org is
>>> much nicer as you don't need ddoc, git, push rights/somebody to merge
>>> pull requests, etc.
>>
>> dlang.org is authoritative. Again optimizing for ease of contribution is nice
>> but the real prize is propagating information to the end user.
>
> +1 and I want to emphasize that I could find no mention of Dustmite on dlang.org.
>
> Now, for gdc and ldc. Go to dlang.org. Where do I go? I click on "Downloads & Tools". This takes me to:
>
>    https://dlang.org/download.html
>
> Where are there any instructions? There's a bunch of links to binaries. I see nothing for LDC. I see nothing for DMD. I see a link on the left to "GDC D Compiler". Clicking on that, I see nothing mentioning that I can get it on Ubuntu with:
>
>     sudo apt-get install gdc
>
> Not even when I click on "downloads" followed by "Ubuntu".
>
> The "Linux notes" should say "Linux DMD Compiler", etc.
>
> "DMD Script Shell" should say "rdmd script shell".
>
> "Debugger" leads to "HTTP 404 Not Found" (this is pretty embarrassing)
>
> The navigation on that page needs a complete do-over and the most basic things people will be looking for are missing.

http://w0rp.com:8010/download

The download page is the page I've changed the most thus far. I started by taking the different D compilers and so on and breaking them into headings with short paragraphs explaining what each is. I was thinking of putting sections in there for instructions for installing on popular Linux distributions.

I'm not the best copy writer in the world, but if anyone feels like writing something for this now, go for it.

https://github.com/w0rp/new-dlang.org/blob/master/markdown/basic/download.md

Aside project note: I'm working on the library documentation pages currently. They are now integrated, but I'm going to be spending quite a few hours playing with CSS and such before I show it off.

On Wednesday, 9 July 2014 at 21:48:09 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote:
> I think there's lots of valuable information on the wiki btw, which is often overlooked for some reason. For contributors, wiki.dlang.org is much nicer as you don't need ddoc, git, push rights/somebody to merge pull requests, etc.

+1 Editing DLang.org is too inconvenient compared to the wiki.

Does someone have an idea to wikify this so changes still go through a review process, but don't require a compiler?

Mike