On May 24, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

> I've tried various downloads that are bad ports of Unix tools to do things like tar, rsync, etc. One common disaster with them is they fail on large files - apparently some internal wrap-around. Miserable.

The GnuWin32 project is pretty solid.  All others I've tried are terrible though.

> No it doesn't. The "skin" is like XP, but all the behavior is still the same
> Win7 stuff. It's still Windows Dock, just with more grey and straight edges.

i seem to miss something crucial here. i have a win xp and win 7 machine 
in front of me this very moment. the quicklaunch buttons on the win 7 
desktop behave a bit differently and some icons in the tray are hidden 
within a popup panel to save space. another difference is you see a list 
of instances of the same running application when you hover over a 
button in the taskbar.

other than that i don't notice any differences in look and behaviour. 
especially nothing that makes me hate win 7 compared to win xp. i still 
favour xp for other reasons though.

"David Nadlinger" <see@klickverbot.at> wrote in message 
news:fvvzmqelefzdwdsooazb@forum.dlang.org...
> On Thursday, 24 May 2012 at 21:10:44 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> at least the taskbar is a user preference (and I'm pretty sure you can 
>>> revert that),
>>
>> It isn't, and you can't.
>>
>> I've checked all over, internet search, etc. If you're on Win7, you have 
>> the
>> Win7 dock, period.
>
> What exactly is wrong with the Windows 7 »dock« set to minimal height, 
> Aero off, and the grouping options adjusted to your liking?
>

Off the top of my head:

- Quicklaunch icons are all jumbled together with the running programs. Why 
MS felt that forcing *less* organization on *everyone* by cloning Apple's 
retarded dock (which itself was just a cheap imitation of the Win taskbar) 
was a good idea is beyond me.

- Titlebar text is not shown on the buttons for the running programs. (This 
*might* be changable though - I can't remember).

- Trying to have a taskbar with more than one row works like shit. The 
different rows are all completely misaligned (it's all a big total mess), 
and the system tray is no longer even *capable* of handling more than one 
row. I *always* use two rows, but on Win7 it's basically broken. And no, 
"You should be using 16:9" is *not* a valid excuse.

- Useless, giant, distracting, popup thumbnails (which you can't even 
distringuish between at a glance anyway) *every* fucking time I move the 
mouse near (let alone try to use) the taskbar.

Also, sort of related to the win dock, but not technically part of it - I 
was very impressed with the in-set "All Programs" list...until I actually 
tried it. I *just don't like it*. It slows me down every time. It feels like 
reading a book through a keyhole. And MS won't even *let* me have my old way 
back.

It's all just, "You're *going* to like our objectively superior design, or 
you can just fuck off." Ie, they've adopted Apple's (and Mozilla's) #1 core 
value. No, fuck *you*, Win7/Vista.

"Sean Kelly" <sean@invisibleduck.org> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1061.1337904113.24740.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
>On May 24, 2012, at 4:46 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>
>> On 5/24/2012 2:15 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>> You sir, have inspired me :) I started writing a reply, but it ended up
>>> being this:
>>>
>>> https://www.semitwist.com/articles/article/view/steve-jobs-was-not-a-good-designer
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> My main complaint with the touch interface is my touches often
>>frustratingly do not register.

I've heard a lot of about the iPhone's keyboard being amazingly accurate. 
I've used it. It's *not* fucking accurate. Approx every 5 to 10 letters is 
registered wrong - and that's when doing it slooowly and carefully. This is 
because my fingers are not the size of a five-year-old's. I've never had 
accuracy problems with a resistive touchscreen, because they don't require a 
whole finger (and capactive styli suck, plus there's no place to store a 
stylus anyway).

>
>Your skin is probably too dry.  Using a touch interface on a cold
>day can be an exercise in frustration for this reason.  I've taken to
>licking my fingers if touches don't register, and that always does the
>trick, though it's maybe a bit gross.=

Yet another reason resistive touchscreens fucking kick ass.

"Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:jpmhit$180q$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 5/24/2012 1:16 AM, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:
>> It's because the concept of "share this" is too damn simple. (and bogus). 
>> Any
>> real network sharing requires users, ACL and so and so forth.
>>
>> To be frank I always preferred running FTP or SSH server on Windows. Or 
>> even
>> Apache ;)
>> (though remote desktop is cool)
>
> Yeah, well, I wish Windows would properly support SSH. I want to be able 
> to use rsync, scp, ssh, etc., out of the box.
>

PuTTY's pretty good once you get over the initial intimidation and (small) 
learning curve. But I agree, all that shit should be "in the box" already, 
plus grep, curl, tee and maybe some others (Fuck, toss in bash, too). And a 
windows sshfs, packed-in, would be freaking awesome.

On 2012-05-25 07:30, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

> It's all just, "You're *going* to like our objectively superior design, or
> you can just fuck off." Ie, they've adopted Apple's (and Mozilla's) #1 core
> value. No, fuck *you*, Win7/Vista.

So much anger inside one person :)

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On Thu, 24 May 2012 19:06:14 +0100, Brad Anderson <eco@gnuk.net> wrote:
>> I find the new Win7 to be much too clever. For example, if you move a
>> window up
>> against the top edge of the screen, it switches to full screen. Aggh. I
>> know why that was done, but it's just tailfins and taillights in the  
>> shape
>> of jet engines. I prefer utilitarian interfaces.
>>
>>
> I actually love AeroSnap.  Not for that maximization feature but for what
> it does when you drag to the left and right sides of the screen.  It  
> makes
> working between two locations or from two windows (say a text editor and  
> a
> reference) much easier.

Me too.. and <windows key> + left, right, up, and down are faster for  
keyboard shortcut lovers like me who find the mouse "too slow" :p

R

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On 25.05.2012 13:12, Regan Heath wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2012 19:06:14 +0100, Brad Anderson <eco@gnuk.net> wrote:
>>> I find the new Win7 to be much too clever. For example, if you move a
>>> window up
>>> against the top edge of the screen, it switches to full screen. Aggh. I
>>> know why that was done, but it's just tailfins and taillights in the
>>> shape
>>> of jet engines. I prefer utilitarian interfaces.
>>>
>>>
>> I actually love AeroSnap. Not for that maximization feature but for what
>> it does when you drag to the left and right sides of the screen. It makes
>> working between two locations or from two windows (say a text editor
>> and a
>> reference) much easier.
>
> Me too.. and <windows key> + left, right, up, and down are faster for
> keyboard shortcut lovers like me who find the mouse "too slow" :p
>

Awesome. TIL etc. :)

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky

On Fri, 25 May 2012 01:30:03 -0400, Nick Sabalausky  
<SeeWebsiteToContactMe@semitwist.com> wrote:

> "David Nadlinger" <see@klickverbot.at> wrote in message
> news:fvvzmqelefzdwdsooazb@forum.dlang.org...
>> On Thursday, 24 May 2012 at 21:10:44 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>> "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> at least the taskbar is a user preference (and I'm pretty sure you can
>>>> revert that),
>>>
>>> It isn't, and you can't.
>>>
>>> I've checked all over, internet search, etc. If you're on Win7, you  
>>> have
>>> the
>>> Win7 dock, period.
>>
>> What exactly is wrong with the Windows 7 »dock« set to minimal height,
>> Aero off, and the grouping options adjusted to your liking?
>>
>
> Off the top of my head:
>
> - Quicklaunch icons are all jumbled together with the running programs.  
> Why
> MS felt that forcing *less* organization on *everyone* by cloning Apple's
> retarded dock (which itself was just a cheap imitation of the Win  
> taskbar)
> was a good idea is beyond me.

You can re-enable the old quicklaunch bar.

I love the new style, and was glad when Ubuntu started doing it.

>
> - Titlebar text is not shown on the buttons for the running programs.  
> (This
> *might* be changable though - I can't remember).

I think you can enable this.

> - Trying to have a taskbar with more than one row works like shit. The
> different rows are all completely misaligned (it's all a big total mess),

I don't know about this, I haven't tried it.

> - Useless, giant, distracting, popup thumbnails (which you can't even
> distringuish between at a glance anyway) *every* fucking time I move the
> mouse near (let alone try to use) the taskbar.

This is quite an exaggeration.  I frequently use these, and they only  
activate if you hover over the buttons, not "near" them.  I can  
distinguish usually, and if I can't, you can hover over the thumbnails,  
and it shows you the actual window in question with all other windows made  
transparent.

I find this feature is *vastly* superior to the old "group all buttons  
together into one taskbar button, then pop a list of the titles" mechanism.

> Also, sort of related to the win dock, but not technically part of it - I
> was very impressed with the in-set "All Programs" list...until I actually
> tried it. I *just don't like it*. It slows me down every time. It feels  
> like
> reading a book through a keyhole. And MS won't even *let* me have my old  
> way
> back.

You mean you don't just start typing the program name you want and have it  
appear?  I haven't browsed programs in a long time.

> It's all just, "You're *going* to like our objectively superior design,  
> or
> you can just fuck off." Ie, they've adopted Apple's (and Mozilla's) #1  
> core
> value. No, fuck *you*, Win7/Vista.

Can't please everybody, and it's really difficult to design and support a  
product that is configurable enough to try and please everybody.

I'd guess that a high majority of users for windows 7 like the new  
interface better than XP.

-Steve

"Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:op.wevablddeav7ka@steves-laptop...
>
>I find this feature is *vastly* superior to the old "group all buttons 
>together into one taskbar button, then pop a list of the titles" mechanism.
>

*shrug* I find the thumbnail popups vastly inferior. Actually, I find it 
useful literally 0% of the time, and both annoying and distracting 100% of 
the time. Not exaggerating.

Just because some people like it doesn't mean it was a sensible move to 
force it on *everyone*.

>You mean you don't just start typing the program name you want and have it 
>appear?  I haven't browsed programs in a long time.
>

Of course not. Why bother with the typing when I can just skip straight to 
the "click on it" part?

>Can't please everybody, and it's really difficult to design and support a 
>product that is configurable enough to try and please everybody.
>

All they have to do is just not remove the old way, leave it in as an 
option. It's not as hard as some make it out to be. Problem solved, 
everyone's pleased.

And it's downright false to categorize this as a mere matter of "not 
pleasing everybody". They're "not pleasing" nearly *half* of their userbase.

>I'd guess that a high majority of users for windows 7 like the new 
>interface better than XP.
>

??? Of *course* most Win7 users like Win7 better, the ones who don't are XP 
users. Likewise, I can confidently say that a high majority of users for XP 
like the old interface better than Win7. So I don't see what that really 
means.

But what I think *is* significant is that XP *continues* to be nearly half 
the Windows market. If MS did such an _objectively_ good job on Win7, then 
why did it create such a huge, lasting division among Windows users?