On Monday, 15 July 2013 at 19:54:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> Given how enormously popular Twitter is for breaking news and announcements, I think you're wrong about that.

I have just check web pages for several popular programming languages and have found zero using twitter instead of a news feed. Popular? Applying general statistics (internet users) to an extremely narrow specialized group of people (programming language consumers) is not going to work.

>> Also it ties important information channel to an external closed
>> service which is never good for the reputation.

It is a service that belongs to specific corporation and is completely controlled by one providing no means for federation and/or self-hosting. Random move from Twitter and D web site can loose its only news feed. Outsourcing primary infrastructure does not smell good.

> A large number of improvements have been made by someone showing enough interest to actually drive forward the changes needed to support their interest. For example, Brad Roberts and Bugzilla. Vladimir and the D forum software. Etc.

Which mostly highlights how awesome some members of D community are :) But why not lower entry barrier? By the way, I have already asked a question in that regard - if someone comes up with a more dynamic web site implementation which is still based on D stack, will it be accepted?

On 7/15/2013 1:11 PM, Dicebot wrote:
> On Monday, 15 July 2013 at 19:54:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> Given how enormously popular Twitter is for breaking news and announcements, I
>> think you're wrong about that.
>
> I have just check web pages for several popular programming languages and have
> found zero using twitter instead of a news feed. Popular? Applying general
> statistics (internet users) to an extremely narrow specialized group of people
> (programming language consumers) is not going to work.

Watch the news - many times the news reporters will remark that they not only get their breaking news from twitter, they'll show the tweets as part of the broadcast.

Twitter for news is mainstream.


> It is a service that belongs to specific corporation and is completely
> controlled by one providing no means for federation and/or self-hosting. Random
> move from Twitter and D web site can loose its only news feed. Outsourcing
> primary infrastructure does not smell good.

If twitter ceases to be useful, we'll move to something else. Note that we also rely on github and Amazon S3. We do self-host this n.g., which has been nice in keeping it fairly free of spam & trolls.


> Which mostly highlights how awesome some members of D community are :) But why
> not lower entry barrier?

Because somebody has to step up and do the work for that. Note that there is no paid IT infrastructure staff. Change is driven by somebody self-appointing themselves champion and driving their agenda forward.


> By the way, I have already asked a question in that
> regard - if someone comes up with a more dynamic web site implementation which
> is still based on D stack, will it be accepted?

If it is obviously awesome, sure. If it isn't, or if it is only marginally better, or same only different, then no.

Am 15.07.2013 13:32, schrieb Dicebot:
> On Monday, 15 July 2013 at 11:20:30 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
>> Anyone know what happen to the prototype that someone made using vibe.d?
>>
>> It looked really good, and worked a lot faster than the current one. It was roughly modelled on the php docs.
> 
> This one: http://vibed.org/temp/d-programming-language.org/phobos/index.html ? Well, as far as I understand there were still some minor remaining issues and Sonke did not have time to continue tweaking it.
> 
> It does not use vibe.d though but "ddox" - a bit more intelligent ddoc spin-off (http://code.dlang.org/packages/ddox). Same static HTML files are generated there.

The status is that I made two pull requests about five months ago and not much happened since then in terms of response. This is why I didn't really continue to (actively) search for any remaining issues.

https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/267 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/tools/pull/43

On 7/15/13 4:13 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 7/15/2013 6:12 AM, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>> If Walter wants to modify the copyright notice, he could modify the file
>> _includes/copyright.html. No need to search for a macro named copyright.
>
> Are you also going to fix all your .c files to replace:
>
>     #define ABC 3
>     #define DEF(i) ((i) + 3)
>
> with a separate file for every macro:
>
>     #include "abc.h"
>     #include "def.h"
>
> ?

I think writing a program and writing a static website are totally different things.

If you want to reuse something in a static website you use a partial: something that's included. You can optionally pass parameters to that partial.

What you usually want to include is HTML, not a value or an expression, so it makes sense to put it in a separate html (markdown, whatever) file.

Yes, it's similar to a macro, but that's how *everyone* is doing web development.

On Monday, 15 July 2013 at 19:27:38 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote:
> On Sunday, 14 July 2013 at 04:56:46 UTC, Val Markovic wrote:
>> There's some low-hanging fruit with the site that shouldn't be too hard to
>> fix: there's an incredibly annoying "content flash" after any page is
>> loaded (it loads fine, you see the text, then the text disappears for a
>> second, then appears again). I've cursed at this more than a dozen times;
>> it's especially annoying on any mobile browser.
>>
>
> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/352

Superseded by:

https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/353
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/355

Everything but Chrome and Opera should be faster sitewide (Andrei has rsynced dlang.org already with these changes).  Chrome and Opera, unfortunately, do not support CSS3 hyphens so they still use the slow hyphenator.js.

+phobos

Anyone knows what's happening?

Andrei

On 7/15/13 12:55 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> http://dlang.org/
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: working on the dlang.org website
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:39:26 +0200
> From: Dicebot <public@dicebot.lv>
> Organization: Digital Mars
> Newsgroups: digitalmars.D
> References: <mailman.29.1373777805.22075.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com>
> <vvqyenjrnfultijjlfcm@forum.dlang.org> <krv231$o6g$1@digitalmars.com>
> <nwjaipaakonlcbgxfrrd@forum.dlang.org> <ks1i10$1udu$1@digitalmars.com>
>
> On Monday, 15 July 2013 at 19:20:00 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> That's why the d_programming twitter feed was added to the
>> front page.
>
> Twitter is incredibly restrictive in its format. People coming to
> front page want to get a detailed explained overview of latest
> news, not 140-symbol mysteries. Also it ties important
> information channel to an external closed service which is never
> good for the reputation.
>
> And as cherry on top - I don't see and embedded twitter feeds on
> dlang.org right now ;)
>
>> In any case, Ddoc can be used to insert the contents of an
>> "announcements" file into the front page. The problem, however,
>> is someone has to write those announcements on a timely basis.
>> Nobody has shown any interest in doing so, and although I've
>> tried to do it on numerous occasions, I just lose steam rather
>> quickly because it bores me to tears.
>
> And how do you expect someone to show the interest? :) Currently
> there are no tools for proposing front page news other than
> making pull requests which has unacceptable latency for news
> anyway. Dead end!
>
> One of best ways to have lot of contributions is making each
> single one as easy as possible.
>
>
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On Monday, 15 July 2013 at 20:34:07 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 7/15/2013 1:11 PM, Dicebot wrote:
>> On Monday, 15 July 2013 at 19:54:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> Given how enormously popular Twitter is for breaking news and announcements, I
>>> think you're wrong about that.
>>
>> I have just check web pages for several popular programming languages and have
>> found zero using twitter instead of a news feed. Popular? Applying general
>> statistics (internet users) to an extremely narrow specialized group of people
>> (programming language consumers) is not going to work.
>
> Watch the news - many times the news reporters will remark that they not only get their breaking news from twitter, they'll show the tweets as part of the broadcast.
>
> Twitter for news is mainstream.
>
>
>> It is a service that belongs to specific corporation and is completely
>> controlled by one providing no means for federation and/or self-hosting. Random
>> move from Twitter and D web site can loose its only news feed. Outsourcing
>> primary infrastructure does not smell good.
>
> If twitter ceases to be useful, we'll move to something else. Note that we also rely on github and Amazon S3. We do self-host this n.g., which has been nice in keeping it fairly free of spam & trolls.
>
>
>> Which mostly highlights how awesome some members of D community are :) But why
>> not lower entry barrier?
>
> Because somebody has to step up and do the work for that. Note that there is no paid IT infrastructure staff. Change is driven by somebody self-appointing themselves champion and driving their agenda forward.
>
>
>> By the way, I have already asked a question in that
>> regard - if someone comes up with a more dynamic web site implementation which
>> is still based on D stack, will it be accepted?
>
> If it is obviously awesome, sure. If it isn't, or if it is only marginally better, or same only different, then no.

FYI, Twitter is blocked here in China. Web pages which need to parse Twitter or other blocked services related stuff become unresponsive for a long time before showing other stuff normally.

On 2013-07-15 20:48, Brad Anderson wrote:
> unfortunately, do not support CSS3 hyphens so they still use the slow
> hyphenator.js.

pls remove hyphenator.js altogehter. i see everyone complaining about it and no one wanting it. the words in the english language are usually short enough so that hyphenation is not really necessary.

cheers,

det

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:16:28AM -0500, captaindet wrote:
> On 2013-07-15 20:48, Brad Anderson wrote:
> >unfortunately, do not support CSS3 hyphens so they still use the slow hyphenator.js.
> 
> pls remove hyphenator.js altogehter. i see everyone complaining about it and no one wanting it. the words in the english language are usually short enough so that hyphenation is not really necessary.
[...]

+1. If people are using browsers that don't support hyphenation, then so be it. They will just get slightly more line-wrapping, that's all. No harm done. This is too tiny a detail to pay such a big price (slow loading, flashing, scrolling disruption, etc.) for.

(I'm one of those people whose browsers don't support hyphenation. That doesn't make the site any less useful (I turned off JS on dlang.org because hyphenator.js is so annoying -- the only difference I noticed was that the site is significantly more usable that way). This is really a nice-to-have feature that doesn't deserve the price we're paying for it, not an indispensible feature.)


T

-- 
First Rule of History: History doesn't repeat itself -- historians merely repeat each other.

Having hyphenator.js on the site slows down the browsing experience immensely, especially on mobile. I know I personally avoid the dlang.orgsite on my Galaxy Nexus and on my Nexus 7 because of this reason.

Since the whole web is right-aligned and users would much rather have a site that loads fast and without content flashes than a site with hyphenation, I believe the library should be removed.

I say this as someone who is a typography nut and loves hyphenation. A printed book without it is not worth buying. But the cost of implementing it in JS for web pages is too high. There's a reason why no major website uses this approach.


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:27 AM, H. S. Teoh <hsteoh@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:16:28AM -0500, captaindet wrote:
> > On 2013-07-15 20:48, Brad Anderson wrote:
> > >unfortunately, do not support CSS3 hyphens so they still use the slow hyphenator.js.
> >
> > pls remove hyphenator.js altogehter. i see everyone complaining about it and no one wanting it. the words in the english language are usually short enough so that hyphenation is not really necessary.
> [...]
>
> +1. If people are using browsers that don't support hyphenation, then so be it. They will just get slightly more line-wrapping, that's all. No harm done. This is too tiny a detail to pay such a big price (slow loading, flashing, scrolling disruption, etc.) for.
>
> (I'm one of those people whose browsers don't support hyphenation. That doesn't make the site any less useful (I turned off JS on dlang.org because hyphenator.js is so annoying -- the only difference I noticed was that the site is significantly more usable that way). This is really a nice-to-have feature that doesn't deserve the price we're paying for it, not an indispensible feature.)
>
>
> T
>
> --
> First Rule of History: History doesn't repeat itself -- historians merely repeat each other.
>