Am 16.01.2012 23:28, schrieb Simen Kjærås:
> To make it all the easier for those who want to make games in D?

Then they can get my lib easily from bitbucket.


> IMO, we should have vectors, matrices, quaternions and all those other
> neat things easily accessible in the language (dual quaternions? Are they
> used in games?)


The question is, what's the aim of phobos, including everything?, including the basics?, so you can implement nearly everything on top of it (similiar to pythons)? or beeing minimalistic as possible?
I get the impression, phobos tries to include everything possible, yeah I am pointing at curl (wtf, a c-lib, not even a D implementation, also you need libcurl now to get phobos compiled (correct me if I am wrong here)). IMHO a std.-lib should include just the basics, so you can build ontop of it.
Including gl3n into phobos would be a real honor for me, but is the goal of phobos to include everything and to ship a fat lib (lol, reminds me a bit of boost) with dmd, or even call it the power of D, an overloaded std.-lib?

On 17 January 2012 14:43, David <d@dav1d.de> wrote:

> Am 17.01.2012 05:31, schrieb Kiith-Sa:
>
>  David wrote:
>>
>>  Am 16.01.2012 03:54, schrieb JoeCoder:
>>>
>>>> On 1/15/2012 1:42 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A nice vector math library for D that puts us competitive will be a
>>>>> nice
>>>>> addition to Phobos.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The gl3n library might be something good to build on: https://bitbucket.org/dav1d/**gl3n <https://bitbucket.org/dav1d/gl3n>
>>>>
>>>> It looks to be a continuation of the OMG library used by Deadlock, and
>>>> is similar to the glm (http://glm.g-truc.net) c++ library which
>>>> emulates
>>>> glsl vector ops in software.
>>>>
>>>> We'd need to ask if it can be re-licensed from MIT to Boost.
>>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> that's definitly possible! But to be honest, I don't  think putting gl3n
>>> into phobos is a good idea. Why does phobos, the std. lib, need a
>>> vector-lib? I haven't seen any other language with something like gl3n
>>> in the std. lib. Also I used my own PEP-8, C (K&R with spaces) style, it
>>> would be a real pain changing this to the Phobos style. One more point
>>> is, that it's not just a Vector-lib, it also does Matrix-,
>>> Quaternion-math, interpolation and implements some other useful
>>> mathematical functions (as found in GLSL).
>>> Of course I am open to a discussion.
>>>
>>> PS:// I already talked with Manu about this topic, and I don't wait too long, gl3n will have core.simd support soon.
>>>
>>
>> gl3n has a really good API with regards to game development
>> (resembling GLSL helps), although I guess changing to a more Phobos
>> style might be needed for inclusion. I think having it in the standard
>> library would be extremely useful, though - no need to implement it myself
>> then. Typical matrices used in gamedev (4x4 etc) woud be really useful as
>> well (as said before, I'd even like stuff like AABBoxes, but let's go for
>> vectors/matrices/quaternions first .
>>
> AABB are also planed for gl3n.
>

Yeah I probably wouldn't put anything that high level in a standard
library. Everyone will want a slightly different flavour.
I think linear algebra with vectors, matrices, quats is about the fair
extent of a std lib. That stuff is pretty un-debatable, but beyond that, it
starts getting very subjective or context specific. Better left for higher
level libraries that may also integrate with renderers/physics systems/etc.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:52:01 +0100, David <d@dav1d.de> wrote:

> Am 16.01.2012 23:28, schrieb Simen Kjærås:
>> To make it all the easier for those who want to make games in D?
>
> Then they can get my lib easily from bitbucket.

Or any one of a 100 other places, with incompatible implementations?

Vectors and matrices are low enough level that people generally won't
need to write their own to match *their* exact use case. That makes
them prime stdlib material.

+1

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Simen Kjærås <simen.kjaras@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:52:01 +0100, David <d@dav1d.de> wrote:
>
>  Am 16.01.2012 23:28, schrieb Simen Kjærås:
>>
>>> To make it all the easier for those who want to make games in D?
>>>
>>
>> Then they can get my lib easily from bitbucket.
>>
>
> Or any one of a 100 other places, with incompatible implementations?
>
> Vectors and matrices are low enough level that people generally won't need to write their own to match *their* exact use case. That makes them prime stdlib material.
>