On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual "job", in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need to "show up" and do it. If "This Week in D" is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and planning ahead for it.
>

There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.

I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results.

On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>[...]
>
> There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.
>
> I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results.

Someone paid $100,000/yr gets 1 mo of vacation. At $35,000/yr you get 2 weeks of vacation. $10/h gets 1 week of vacation. See where I'm getting at? ^^

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:35:47 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:

> With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being.

Shame!
http://i.imgur.com/OyLhxfc.gif

  Bit

On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:
>
> It's your anger and hate you need to take a hard look at, it's taking you to a dark place. Whatever it is that's really eating you, I doubt it's the muslims that caused it.

I do not know about the other parts of the world, but where I live, Muslims invaded a thousand year back without any provocation and with the same ferocity that they now exhibit in Iraq and Syria. So much so that from Mecca to the boundaries of present day India (and that includes Iran Iraq Afgan and Pakistan) all were converted by sword.

There is story of Banda Bahadur (an Indian warrior) who was captured along with his 4 year old son and asked to convert. On refusal, his son of 4 years was butchered in front of his eyes and his heart was taken out and forces fed into Banda's mouth. No I am not making up these stories, these are part of registered history written by Muslim historians. All this happened in the court of the then Islamic ruler named Aurangzeb. So at least I am not amused by what is happening in Iraq and Syria today.

> BTW if you want to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim and not hate propagation sites.

Do that at your own risk. Many in Europe did that and ended up converting to this cult. There is a tenet of Islam called Taqiyya that one should be aware of before going to a Muslim and asking him for Islamic teachings. Search for Taqiyya on Google and be fearless.

- A Lost Indian

On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.
>
> I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results.

Yeah, this seems very dramatic. The release process is in much better shape than it's ever been thanks in large part to his efforts and nobody knows it better than him. It's not like anyone else is eager to jump in and fill the role that Martin volunteered for.

I'm not saying the unannounced MIA isn't a problem, it is. It's just that demoting the one person who is best equipped to do it seems a bit over the top for an all volunteer community project. "Can someone fill in until we figure out what is going on?" is perhaps a more appropriate response than a public rebuke.

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote:
> On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:
>> [...]
>
> I do not know about the other parts of the world, but where I live, Muslims invaded a thousand year back without any provocation and with the same ferocity that they now exhibit in Iraq and Syria. So much so that from Mecca to the boundaries of present day India (and that includes Iran Iraq Afgan and Pakistan) all were converted by sword.
>
> [...]

Discussions this dumb belong on Hacker News. I took a long break from this site and upon my return I saw this.

On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual "job", in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need to "show up" and do it. If "This Week in D" is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and planning ahead for it.
>>
>
> There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee.
>
> I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results.

With an official position in the dlang organization with certain responsibilities, I don't think that it's necessarily unreasonable to expect certain things from the person who's in that position (like being able to contact them within a certain period of time unless they've communicated ahead of time that they won't be available). However, that level of commitment needs to be understood by those involved, whereas it seems like it was just assumed by Andrei. And normally, Martin _is_ contactable within a fairly short period of time. It's just that he went on vacation first without communicating that. He probably should have been more contactable than he was, but sometimes that happens when you're on vacation.

So, if we want to place certain requirements of contactability or punctuality or whatnot on volunteers in certain positions of responsibility, then I don't see a problem with that, but that needs to be clear up front, and I don't think that it was. So, this definitely seems like an overreaction to me on Andrei's part, especially when you consider how on top of things Martin usually is.

That being said, I think that this does highlight how we need to have multiple people involved in the release process so that having one person go on vacation doesn't bring things to a halt, and for official responsibilities that are time-sensitive, we probably do need to have those involved communicating ahead of time when they're not going to be available for a week or more.

- Jonathan M Davis

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote:
> There is story of Banda Bahadur (an Indian warrior) who was captured along with his 4 year old son and asked to convert. On refusal, his son of 4 years was butchered in front of his eyes

To be fair it does sound like he was asking for it. I wouldn't provoke an armed man who's holding my 4 yr old captive. I mean, the young ones have been butchered in War since before mankind. War is Hell. This stuff has happened recently, I haven't finished holding my breath over reading about Nanking Massacre on Wikipedia the other day.

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote:
>> BTW if you want to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim and not hate propagation sites.
>
> Do that at your own risk. Many in Europe did that and ended up converting to this cult. There is a tenet of Islam called Taqiyya that one should be aware of before going to a Muslim and asking him for Islamic teachings. Search for Taqiyya on Google and be fearless.
>
> - A Lost Indian

I didn't expect to see this kind of hate on a programming forum...

I know lots of Muslims. Even married a Muslim (atheist myself). Most great people. In general, very modest, hard working, and loving. Sure I've met some bad seeds, but I've met some pretty bad seeds in every demographic. There's over a billion Muslims and growing. And just as in any religion the way it is practiced is very diverse and often influenced by culture. If you go to southern and central Africa, you will see very similar behavior as in the mid-east, but in a more Christian society. But even in these cultures there are great people. Their voices just get spoken over by the louder more extreme individuals. I recommend getting outside of your bubble to gain a much larger perspective.

On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 6/17/15 5:38 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:
>
> You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his readership "I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9". Which is totally fine.
>
> I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior.

WTF? The guy went on vacation. He's doing what you describe as "good" work for free. This isn't just strange, it's unrealistic on your part.

> In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of the most serious people  > I've dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust.

Again WTF? He went on vacation.

> With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being.

Oh, yay, you will allow him to work for free still...

> Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the transition.

Diminish a guy as "unprofessional", demote him, and then ask for his help? This is not the way to encourage people to get involved in this community. In fact, as an outsider, I was looking to contribute to an opensource language (with D being the one I was really considering), but this just turned me completely off from participating here. The guy went on vacation for gosh sakes.

> I'll be also counting on help from the more process-oriented members of the community. One note - 2.068 will be delayed because I have a house move to deal with for the time being, not to mention being busy with std.allocator and std.collection.
>

Release positions are not exactly and enticing role. So good luck with this having this particular attitude....