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July 25, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Thursday, 25 July 2013 at 11:22:47 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote:
> Is this a big problem performance wise though? I mean, the bug 
> was *only* that the first few iteration were "not so random", 
> is this correct? This fix didn't really change the 
> computational cost of the operation, did it?

Re the benchmarks, as they're all using a custom-written 32-bit 
Xorshift, there should be no bias (except against Haskell and 
Scala which are using 128-bit versions).

Re the bug in Phobos Xorshift32, it might affect performance 
slightly as it was caused by a missing xor transformation. But 
it's irrelevant to the benchmark as they're not using it.

The practical effect of the bug was that instead of being 
uniformly distributed, all the numbers being generated were from 
the extreme lower end of the range. (I think you may be confusing 
it with issues related to RandomCover and RandomSample.)

> I mean, it's a problem as far as randomness goes, but for a 
> simple bench, I don't think it is much of a problem.

Most likely. :-)
July 25, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Jul 25, 2013 1:10 AM, "Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg@gmx.com> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, July 25, 2013 01:29:04 John Colvin wrote:
> > And @safe is automatically inferred (on templates only still?)
> > when possible? I don't like where this is going...
>
> If you have code that you want to be explictly @system, then mark it with
> @system. That will override any attribute inference for @safe.
>
> - Jonathan m Davis

Can't remember the logic off the top off my head.  Check the old old change
logs. :)

-no bounds check set value is between the range 0-2 is all I recall, and
that there being a check for @safety.

Regards
-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
July 25, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 at 06:20:11 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
> On 7/23/13 9:23 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> reddit link:
>>> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ixnf6/benchmarking_roguelike_level_generation_go_rust/
>>
>> Please post your comment here to Reddit!
>
> Did. I tried to provide positive feedback. I'm mildly miffed 
> how the text is so much at odds with the numbers - literally as 
> if the text was written beforehand and the numbers collected at 
> the last minute.
>
>
> Andrei

Whatever miffs us, let's try to keep cool and show the same class 
that the Rust guys do here:
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-July/004838.html

Oh, and BTW, I really want to congrat them, they've been doing a 
great job so far.
July 26, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
"SomeDude" <lovelydear@mailmetrash.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 at 06:20:11 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
> wrote:
> > On 7/23/13 9:23 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> >>> reddit link:
> >>> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ixnf6/benchmarking_roguelike_level_generation_go_rust/
> >>
> >> Please post your comment here to Reddit!
> >
> > Did. I tried to provide positive feedback. I'm mildly miffed 
> > how the text is so much at odds with the numbers - literally as 
> > if the text was written beforehand and the numbers collected at 
> > the last minute.
> >
> >
> > Andrei
> 
> Whatever miffs us, let's try to keep cool and show the same class 
> that the Rust guys do here:
> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-July/004838.html
> 
> Oh, and BTW, I really want to congrat them, they've been doing a 
> great job so far.

Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that an example
of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any opinion
contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be tolerated (or
must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration filter).

Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random slander" is
outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* glad that
we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion and not
descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash trap of
"happy...or else".
July 26, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On 7/25/2013 6:48 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that an example
> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any opinion
> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be tolerated (or
> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration filter).
>
> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random slander" is
> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* glad that
> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion and not
> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash trap of
> "happy...or else".

I tend to agree. I enjoy a bit of rough and tumble with ideas, along with 
hyperbole and excursions into excess, and even the occasional angry outburst.

Where I draw the line, though, is bullying any member of our community. 
Fortunately, uncivil behavior has been extremely rare, and I am very proud of 
our community as a result.
July 26, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 02:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 7/25/2013 6:48 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that 
>> an example
>> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
>> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any 
>> opinion
>> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be 
>> tolerated (or
>> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration 
>> filter).
>>
>> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random 
>> slander" is
>> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* 
>> glad that
>> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion 
>> and not
>> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash 
>> trap of
>> "happy...or else".
>
> I tend to agree. I enjoy a bit of rough and tumble with ideas, 
> along with hyperbole and excursions into excess, and even the 
> occasional angry outburst.
>
> Where I draw the line, though, is bullying any member of our 
> community. Fortunately, uncivil behavior has been extremely 
> rare, and I am very proud of our community as a result.

Stop reading my mind !
July 26, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200

> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that 
> an example
> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any 
> opinion
> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be 
> tolerated (or
> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration 
> filter).
>
> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random 
> slander" is
> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* 
> glad that
> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion 
> and not
> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash 
> trap of
> "happy...or else".

"new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk 
about overreaction.

I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of 
discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect 
the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high 
standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and 
bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important to 
show that we all keep an open mind.
July 26, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 03:37:46 UTC, SomeDude wrote:
> On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
>
>> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that 
>> an example
>> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
>> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any 
>> opinion
>> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be 
>> tolerated (or
>> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration 
>> filter).
>>
>> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random 
>> slander" is
>> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* 
>> glad that
>> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion 
>> and not
>> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash 
>> trap of
>> "happy...or else".
>
> "new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk 
> about overreaction.
>
> I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of 
> discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect 
> the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high 
> standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and 
> bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important 
> to show that we all keep an open mind.

BTW, this post I saw on reddit and has been very well received.
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1iydil/the_zed_shaw_phenomenon_a_look_at_bullies_in_tech/cb9berc
July 26, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 05:37:41 +0200
"SomeDude" <lovelydear@mailmetrash.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
> 
> > Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that 
> > an example
> > of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> > incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any 
> > opinion
> > contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be 
> > tolerated (or
> > must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration 
> > filter).
> >
> > Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random 
> > slander" is
> > outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* 
> > glad that
> > we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion 
> > and not
> > descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash 
> > trap of
> > "happy...or else".
> 
> "new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk 
> about overreaction.
> 
> I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of 
> discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect 
> the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high 
> standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and 
> bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important to 
> show that we all keep an open mind.

The terms I used are admittedly exaggerated in their strength, but
they're the most accurate way I can think of to describe the basic
points I was trying to get across.

There's nothing wrong with what the moderator said, per se. The problem
is that it came in direct response to these exact quotes:

> "You think Linux is not well-engineered?"
>
> Nope .. its the same piece of 1970s crap that all the other popular OS
> use , with trivial differences people make a bit deal about..
[...]
> Go and D are basically C with a few add ons so it makes sense thet
> want to keep things the same that does not mean they are good ... and
> none of those are major languages ..

Note that strongest BY FAR the strongest thing said there is one
instance of the word "crap". Big deal...

I may not agree with those statements, but they're FAR from being the
abusive community-destroying slander that the moderator is making it out
to be. To look at THOSE quotes above and claim that they're
unacceptable *IS* to claim that merely voicing a distaste for something
is unacceptable, because those quotes say nothing more than that.

It's either an overreaction to the quotes, or it's whitewashing reality
itself. There's nothing else in those quotes to take issue with unless
we're so very immature that we can't even handle the word "crap".
July 26, 2013
Re: Flame bait: D vs. Rust vs. Go Benchmarking
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 05:39:08 +0200
"SomeDude" <lovelydear@mailmetrash.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 03:37:46 UTC, SomeDude wrote:
> > On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> >> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
> >
> >> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that 
> >> an example
> >> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> >> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any 
> >> opinion
> >> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be 
> >> tolerated (or
> >> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration 
> >> filter).
> >>
> >> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random 
> >> slander" is
> >> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* 
> >> glad that
> >> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion 
> >> and not
> >> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash 
> >> trap of
> >> "happy...or else".
> >
> > "new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk 
> > about overreaction.
> >
> > I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of 
> > discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect 
> > the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high 
> > standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and 
> > bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important 
> > to show that we all keep an open mind.
> 
> BTW, this post I saw on reddit and has been very well received.
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1iydil/the_zed_shaw_phenomenon_a_look_at_bullies_in_tech/cb9berc

I don't doubt that. Intolerance of negative opinions is extremely
popular these days (something I've always found inherently
self-contradictory and hypocritical).

If you have an opinion on something that doesn't amount to "it is
good", then yes, you are seen by *many* people as being bad person who
exhibits the sorts of ideas and beliefs that (slippery slope fallacy
here) lead to atrocities (making such beliefs therefore unacceptable
viewpoints - or at least unacceptable to speak and write).
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