July 25, 2013
On Thursday, 25 July 2013 at 11:22:47 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote:
> Is this a big problem performance wise though? I mean, the bug was *only* that the first few iteration were "not so random", is this correct? This fix didn't really change the computational cost of the operation, did it?

Re the benchmarks, as they're all using a custom-written 32-bit Xorshift, there should be no bias (except against Haskell and Scala which are using 128-bit versions).

Re the bug in Phobos Xorshift32, it might affect performance slightly as it was caused by a missing xor transformation. But it's irrelevant to the benchmark as they're not using it.

The practical effect of the bug was that instead of being uniformly distributed, all the numbers being generated were from the extreme lower end of the range. (I think you may be confusing it with issues related to RandomCover and RandomSample.)

> I mean, it's a problem as far as randomness goes, but for a simple bench, I don't think it is much of a problem.

Most likely. :-)
July 25, 2013
On Jul 25, 2013 1:10 AM, "Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg@gmx.com> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, July 25, 2013 01:29:04 John Colvin wrote:
> > And @safe is automatically inferred (on templates only still?) when possible? I don't like where this is going...
>
> If you have code that you want to be explictly @system, then mark it with @system. That will override any attribute inference for @safe.
>
> - Jonathan m Davis

Can't remember the logic off the top off my head.  Check the old old change logs. :)

-no bounds check set value is between the range 0-2 is all I recall, and that there being a check for @safety.

Regards
-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';


July 25, 2013
On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 at 06:20:11 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 7/23/13 9:23 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> reddit link:
>>> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ixnf6/benchmarking_roguelike_level_generation_go_rust/
>>
>> Please post your comment here to Reddit!
>
> Did. I tried to provide positive feedback. I'm mildly miffed how the text is so much at odds with the numbers - literally as if the text was written beforehand and the numbers collected at the last minute.
>
>
> Andrei

Whatever miffs us, let's try to keep cool and show the same class that the Rust guys do here:
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-July/004838.html

Oh, and BTW, I really want to congrat them, they've been doing a great job so far.
July 26, 2013
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
"SomeDude" <lovelydear@mailmetrash.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 at 06:20:11 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> > On 7/23/13 9:23 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
> >>> reddit link: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ixnf6/benchmarking_roguelike_level_generation_go_rust/
> >>
> >> Please post your comment here to Reddit!
> >
> > Did. I tried to provide positive feedback. I'm mildly miffed how the text is so much at odds with the numbers - literally as if the text was written beforehand and the numbers collected at the last minute.
> >
> >
> > Andrei
> 
> Whatever miffs us, let's try to keep cool and show the same class that the Rust guys do here: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-July/004838.html
> 
> Oh, and BTW, I really want to congrat them, they've been doing a great job so far.

Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that an example of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any opinion contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be tolerated (or must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration filter).

Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random slander" is outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* glad that we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion and not descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash trap of "happy...or else".

July 26, 2013
On 7/25/2013 6:48 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that an example
> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any opinion
> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be tolerated (or
> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration filter).
>
> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random slander" is
> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* glad that
> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion and not
> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash trap of
> "happy...or else".

I tend to agree. I enjoy a bit of rough and tumble with ideas, along with hyperbole and excursions into excess, and even the occasional angry outburst.

Where I draw the line, though, is bullying any member of our community. Fortunately, uncivil behavior has been extremely rare, and I am very proud of our community as a result.

July 26, 2013
On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 02:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 7/25/2013 6:48 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that an example
>> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
>> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any opinion
>> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be tolerated (or
>> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration filter).
>>
>> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random slander" is
>> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* glad that
>> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion and not
>> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash trap of
>> "happy...or else".
>
> I tend to agree. I enjoy a bit of rough and tumble with ideas, along with hyperbole and excursions into excess, and even the occasional angry outburst.
>
> Where I draw the line, though, is bullying any member of our community. Fortunately, uncivil behavior has been extremely rare, and I am very proud of our community as a result.

Stop reading my mind !
July 26, 2013
On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200

> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that an example
> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any opinion
> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be tolerated (or
> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration filter).
>
> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random slander" is
> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* glad that
> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion and not
> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash trap of
> "happy...or else".

"new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk about overreaction.

I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important to show that we all keep an open mind.
July 26, 2013
On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 03:37:46 UTC, SomeDude wrote:
> On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
>
>> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that an example
>> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
>> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any opinion
>> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be tolerated (or
>> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration filter).
>>
>> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random slander" is
>> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very* glad that
>> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion and not
>> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash trap of
>> "happy...or else".
>
> "new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk about overreaction.
>
> I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important to show that we all keep an open mind.

BTW, this post I saw on reddit and has been very well received.
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1iydil/the_zed_shaw_phenomenon_a_look_at_bullies_in_tech/cb9berc
July 26, 2013
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 05:37:41 +0200
"SomeDude" <lovelydear@mailmetrash.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
> 
> > Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that
> > an example
> > of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> > incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any
> > opinion
> > contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be
> > tolerated (or
> > must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration
> > filter).
> >
> > Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random
> > slander" is
> > outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very*
> > glad that
> > we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion
> > and not
> > descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash
> > trap of
> > "happy...or else".
> 
> "new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk about overreaction.
> 
> I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important to show that we all keep an open mind.

The terms I used are admittedly exaggerated in their strength, but they're the most accurate way I can think of to describe the basic points I was trying to get across.

There's nothing wrong with what the moderator said, per se. The problem is that it came in direct response to these exact quotes:

> "You think Linux is not well-engineered?"
>
> Nope .. its the same piece of 1970s crap that all the other popular OS use , with trivial differences people make a bit deal about..
[...]
> Go and D are basically C with a few add ons so it makes sense thet want to keep things the same that does not mean they are good ... and none of those are major languages ..

Note that strongest BY FAR the strongest thing said there is one instance of the word "crap". Big deal...

I may not agree with those statements, but they're FAR from being the abusive community-destroying slander that the moderator is making it out to be. To look at THOSE quotes above and claim that they're unacceptable *IS* to claim that merely voicing a distaste for something is unacceptable, because those quotes say nothing more than that.

It's either an overreaction to the quotes, or it's whitewashing reality itself. There's nothing else in those quotes to take issue with unless we're so very immature that we can't even handle the word "crap".




July 26, 2013
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 05:39:08 +0200
"SomeDude" <lovelydear@mailmetrash.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 03:37:46 UTC, SomeDude wrote:
> > On Friday, 26 July 2013 at 01:48:36 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> >> On Fri, 26 Jul 2013 01:14:42 +0200
> >
> >> Not to slam Rust or the Rust people, but I wouldn't call that
> >> an example
> >> of "class" so much as "new age nazi": where everything is
> >> incontrovertibly wonderful in it's own special way and any
> >> opinion
> >> contrary to that is categorically invalid and not to be
> >> tolerated (or
> >> must, at least, be first run through a rose-tinted castration
> >> filter).
> >>
> >> Referring to those two quotations as "throw[ing] random
> >> slander" is
> >> outright hyperbole and very much an overreaction. I'm *very*
> >> glad that
> >> we've been mature enough here to allow real, frank discussion
> >> and not
> >> descend into the self-righteous, almost Orwellian, whitewash
> >> trap of
> >> "happy...or else".
> >
> > "new age nazi", "castration filter", "almost orwellian"... talk about overreaction.
> >
> > I think the intent of the moderator is to keep the level of discussions high,and have some  not to rose-tint them. I expect the main leaders of the D community to keep the same high standards, not only on the m-l, but also on other forums and bulletin boards, like reddit or HN. After all, it's important to show that we all keep an open mind.
> 
> BTW, this post I saw on reddit and has been very well received. http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1iydil/the_zed_shaw_phenomenon_a_look_at_bullies_in_tech/cb9berc

I don't doubt that. Intolerance of negative opinions is extremely popular these days (something I've always found inherently self-contradictory and hypocritical).

If you have an opinion on something that doesn't amount to "it is good", then yes, you are seen by *many* people as being bad person who exhibits the sorts of ideas and beliefs that (slippery slope fallacy here) lead to atrocities (making such beliefs therefore unacceptable viewpoints - or at least unacceptable to speak and write).


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