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November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
On 11/27/2011 11:40 PM, Alexey Veselovsky wrote:
> Also I can't
> write method implementation in different (implementation) file
> (without inheritance).

---------- .di file ------------

module foo;

int bar();

---------- .d file -------------

module foo;

int bar() { return 3; }

--------------------------------
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
Am 28.11.2011, 11:02 Uhr, schrieb Jude <10equals2@gmail.com>:

>> I tried to write a lib and a project, which used that lib
>> separately, but came to conclusion that the best choice it to pull
>> lib code to project one. And it is not a biggest problem, because
>> dmd produces 700 kb executable for hello word program.
>
> what..?
>
> I don't know how you are managing to get 700kb for hello world...
> mine clocks in a 283.7kb with dmd with no optmizations, and holy crap
> 1.6MB for same file with gdmd.
>
> WTF is going on there I wonder...?

*drum roll*

148,2 kB (dmd 2.054, Linux)

*tadaa*

- 8< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
import std.stdio;

void main() {
	writeln("Hello, world!");
}
- 8< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
>> Also I can't
>> write method implementation in different (implementation) file
>> (without inheritance).
>
> ---------- .di file ------------
>
> module foo;
>
> int bar();
>
> ---------- .d file -------------
>
> module foo;
>
> int bar() { return 3; }

Method, not global function.

struct Foo {
   void foo();
}

I want write this in di. And in d i want write implementation.
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
On 11/28/2011 3:19 AM, Alexey Veselovsky wrote:
> Also I can't
> write method implementation in different (implementation) file
> (without inheritance).

 ---------- .di file ------------

 module foo;

 struct Foo {
       void foo();
 }

 ---------- .d file -------------

 module foo;

 struct Foo {
       void foo() { ... code ... }
 }

---------------------------------
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
>  module foo;
>
>  struct Foo {
>       void foo();
>  }
>
>  ---------- .d file -------------
>
>  module foo;
>
>  struct Foo {
>       void foo() { ... code ... }
>  }

ok. What about:

struct Foo {
   int a;
   int b;
   // 100 more fields
   ...
   void foo();
}

Did I must write in implementation all this 100+ fields in implementation?

In Ada and Modula there is 2 languages: one for implementation and
another for specification. (specification language not subset of
implementation language). I think it is right.
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:32:12 +0200, Walter Bright  
<newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:

> On 11/28/2011 3:19 AM, Alexey Veselovsky wrote:
>> Also I can't
>> write method implementation in different (implementation) file
>> (without inheritance).
>
>   ---------- .di file ------------
>
>   module foo;
>
>   struct Foo {
>         void foo();
>   }
>
>   ---------- .d file -------------
>
>   module foo;
>
>   struct Foo {
>         void foo() { ... code ... }
>   }
>
> ---------------------------------

His example which i replied was to the point.
Structs don't have any fields labeled private elsewhere, but the compiler  
still exposing private structs/functions which was used by function  
implementations.
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
On 11/28/2011 11:44 AM, so wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:42:24 +0200, Caligo <iteronvexor@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Alexey Veselovsky <
>> alexey.veselovsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to switch from C++ to D. But I can't find some things that
>>> I love in C++. For example in C++ I can separate module specification
>>> and implementation. Advertising article "The Case for D" says that it
>>> is real in D too:
>>>
>>> "D has a true module system that supports separate compilation and
>>> generates and uses module summaries (highbrowspeak for "header files")
>>> automatically from source, so you don't need to worry about
>>> maintaining redundant files separately, unless you really wish to, in
>>> which case you can. Yep, that stops that nag right in mid-sentence."
>>>
>>> But it is not true...
>>>
>>
>> The separation of specification and implementation in C/C++ is not some
>> feature that they came up. I would call it a design defect. Having to
>> split up code between header files and source files is one of the
>> things I
>> dislike about C/C++. As for why anyone would be in love with such a
>> thing,
>> well that's just beyond me.
>
> How would you write libraries?

The way they do, for example, in C# - interface definitions are stored 
in the library, no need for separate headers.
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
ok. I just removed from test.di all non public entities.

// D import file generated from 'test.d'
module test;
public
{
   void foo();

   struct Boo
   {
       public
       {
           void boo();
       }
   }
}

Now, let's build it:
$ dmd test.di test.d main.d
test.d: Error: module test from file test.d conflicts with another
module test from file test.di

di file not specification, but just another version of implementation?

ok. let's separate build.

$ dmd -c test.d
$ dmd main.d test.di
main.d(7): Error: no property 'S' for type 'Boo'
main.d(7): Error: Boo.S is used as a type
main.d(8): Error: undefined identifier HelperStruct

It seem like ok. Expected error. We fix it, and everybody happy. But
after years, someone changes test.d:

module test;

public {
   void foo() {foo_helper();}

   struct Boo
   {
   public:
       void booBar() {S ss; foo_helper();} // <---- method was renamed
   private:
       struct S {};
   }
}

private {
   struct HelperStruct {};
   void foo_helper() {HelperStruct s;}
}

He rename method, but forgot to change test.di. Let's build it:
$ dmd -c test.d
$ dmd main.d test.di
Undefined symbols for architecture i386:
 "_D4test3Boo3booMFZv", referenced from:
     __Dmain in main.o
 "_D4test3fooFZv", referenced from:
     __Dmain in main.o
ld: symbol(s) not found for architecture i386
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

Oops. No compilation error. Only linker error. Welcome back to C!

Compiler doesn't know anything about "specification" files. So, he
did't check specification&implementation conformance.
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:58:25 +0200, Max Samukha <maxter@spambox.com> wrote:

>> How would you write libraries?
>
> The way they do, for example, in C# - interface definitions are stored  
> in the library, no need for separate headers.

Are we talking about the same thing?
Something like  
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms236403(v=vs.80).aspx?

So it does what auto-generated .di files does, and turns it into an  
abomination, it relies on an IDE feature?
Amazing, so now "programmer" means VisualStudio user? Probably this is why  
everyone using only C/C++ for serious library development.

(Please don't take it personal, this is my usual tone)
November 28, 2011
Re: boost crowd.
On 2011-11-28 10:01, Maxim Fomin wrote:
> I tried to write a lib and a project, which used that lib separately,
> but came to conclusion
> that the best choice it to pull lib code to project one.
> And it is not a biggest problem, because dmd produces 700 kb
> executable for hello word program.

Neither the standard library or runtime is dynamically linked, which is 
the case for C/C++. If you dynamically link the standard library and the 
runtime a Hello World application takes around 16KB (D1, Tango on Mac OS 
X), the same as a Hello World application written in C takes.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
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