It seems the phobos forum here: http://forum.dlang.org/group/phobos

Has become little more than a mirror of github activity.

Can github activity be auto-mailed to whoever subscribes? If so, why do we need a special mailing list to chronicle github messages?

Similar issues with druntime/dmd-internals. I haven't received a message that was simply addressed to that list in a long long time, everything seems to be github activity.

-Steve

Personally, I believe that it receiving pull request traffic is a good thing.  The lack of _other_ conversations is mostly a sign of lack of activity from the phobos contributors.  The amount of github generated traffic is pretty low too, so it's not like it's overwhelming at all.

The same for the other lists.

They could be separated into two lists, but is that what any of the developers want?

On 3/11/14, 12:32 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
> It seems the phobos forum here: http://forum.dlang.org/group/phobos
>
> Has become little more than a mirror of github activity.
>
> Can github activity be auto-mailed to whoever subscribes? If so, why do we need a special mailing
> list to chronicle github messages?
>
> Similar issues with druntime/dmd-internals. I haven't received a message that was simply addressed
> to that list in a long long time, everything seems to be github activity.
>
> -Steve

On 3/11/14, Brad Roberts <braddr@puremagic.com> wrote:
> They could be separated into two lists, but is that what any of the developers want?

I'd want the dmd internals NG to be split up: http://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.109.1392491086.6445.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com

On 3/12/14, 12:51 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> On 3/11/14, Brad Roberts <braddr@puremagic.com> wrote:
>> They could be separated into two lists, but is that what any of the
>> developers want?
>
> I'd want the dmd internals NG to be split up:
> http://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.109.1392491086.6445.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com

If its what people want, then I'll make the changes (at least on the mailing list and github config side of things, I can't do anything with the news groups or the forum configs).

That said, I figured a few stats might be interesting and might help inform the value of the split.  Since December 4 (where the log I'm using happens to start), through today, for the Phobos list, here's a break down of the number of days having a given post count (note, 0 post days will be missing from this since there won't have been any log lines to process, someone do the math to fill that line in for us :)

   # days   # posts
     18       1
     15       2
      9       3
     14       4
      6       5
      5       6
      6       7
      3       8
      1       9
      3      10
      2      11
      2      12
      1      17
      1      19
      1      23
      1      26

This doesn't split between github vs non-github traffic, it's the two combined.  So, the vast majority of days have less than 10 messages.  That's such a tiny amount that I'm amazed that anyone is remotely concerned.

The dmd-internals list has the same pattern:

   # days   # posts
      6       1
      9       2
     13       3
     17       4
      8       5
      4       6
      6       7
      5       8
      6       9
      1      10
      5      11
      1      12
      1      13
      1      14
      1      15
      2      17
      1      41

On 12 March 2014 08:40, Brad Roberts <braddr@puremagic.com> wrote:
> On 3/12/14, 12:51 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>
>> On 3/11/14, Brad Roberts <braddr@puremagic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> They could be separated into two lists, but is that what any of the developers want?
>>
>>
>> I'd want the dmd internals NG to be split up:
>>
>> http://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.109.1392491086.6445.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com
>
>
> If its what people want, then I'll make the changes (at least on the mailing list and github config side of things, I can't do anything with the news groups or the forum configs).
>
> That said, I figured a few stats might be interesting and might help inform the value of the split.  Since December 4 (where the log I'm using happens to start), through today, for the Phobos list, here's a break down of the number of days having a given post count (note, 0 post days will be missing from this since there won't have been any log lines to process, someone do the math to fill that line in for us :)
>
>    # days   # posts
>      18       1
>      15       2
>       9       3
>      14       4
>       6       5
>       5       6
>       6       7
>       3       8
>       1       9
>       3      10
>       2      11
>       2      12
>       1      17
>       1      19
>       1      23
>       1      26
>
> This doesn't split between github vs non-github traffic, it's the two combined.  So, the vast majority of days have less than 10 messages.  That's such a tiny amount that I'm amazed that anyone is remotely concerned.
>

>From a perspective of someone who interacts with the ML through his
own mail client, I don't feel concerned either about the extraneous traffic.  At least I get messages for things that I should be aware of.

>From the perspective of someone who sees the ML as a forum though....

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:41:53 -0400, Brad Roberts <braddr@puremagic.com> wrote:

> Personally, I believe that it receiving pull request traffic is a good thing.  The lack of _other_ conversations is mostly a sign of lack of activity from the phobos contributors.  The amount of github generated traffic is pretty low too, so it's not like it's overwhelming at all.
>
> The same for the other lists.
>
> They could be separated into two lists, but is that what any of the developers want?

The list only seems to capture github commits. I get a ton of emails from github regarding discussion on pull requests. I get probably 25-50 emails a day on github discussion.

At the very least, the d forum page is quite useless. Every message is from "github" and there is no threading. It would be nice I think for the d forum to just ignore messages from github.

-Steve

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 04:45:33 -0400, Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw@gdcproject.org> wrote:

> On 12 March 2014 08:40, Brad Roberts <braddr@puremagic.com> wrote:
>> On 3/12/14, 12:51 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>>
>>> On 3/11/14, Brad Roberts <braddr@puremagic.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They could be separated into two lists, but is that what any of the
>>>> developers want?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd want the dmd internals NG to be split up:
>>>
>>> http://forum.dlang.org/post/mailman.109.1392491086.6445.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com
>>
>>
>> If its what people want, then I'll make the changes (at least on the mailing
>> list and github config side of things, I can't do anything with the news
>> groups or the forum configs).
>>
>> That said, I figured a few stats might be interesting and might help inform
>> the value of the split.  Since December 4 (where the log I'm using happens
>> to start), through today, for the Phobos list, here's a break down of the
>> number of days having a given post count (note, 0 post days will be missing
>> from this since there won't have been any log lines to process, someone do
>> the math to fill that line in for us :)
>>
>>    # days   # posts
>>      18       1
>>      15       2
>>       9       3
>>      14       4
>>       6       5
>>       5       6
>>       6       7
>>       3       8
>>       1       9
>>       3      10
>>       2      11
>>       2      12
>>       1      17
>>       1      19
>>       1      23
>>       1      26
>>
>> This doesn't split between github vs non-github traffic, it's the two
>> combined.  So, the vast majority of days have less than 10 messages.  That's
>> such a tiny amount that I'm amazed that anyone is remotely concerned.

There is a threshold for everyone, where messages just get mindlessly deleted. Basically, I don't have time to go through all these messages to see if they are important when most of them aren't, so whenever I see a github commit, I delete it. I realized recently that this is just a task I would like not to have to do.

Since December 4th, there have been 12 threads that were not github commits:

http://forum.dlang.org/post/531122FE.1020006@digitalmars.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/CACYV=-EFSQ4ujgQiOHf6UotZ7aK_q1yX6iQL--aKNzHjR5E1kQ@mail.gmail.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/52EB6E6A.4000405@digitalmars.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/1391143889.8220.YahooMailNeo@web124902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/52DACA0E.802@erdani.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/CAP9J_HXN2MxKEdXmi5FbFNtrXC_msW33GC=10Mx3cF8_RfroEw@mail.gmail.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/52D6F12D.5030803@puremagic.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/52D70E41.7070400@puremagic.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/EB35FC5F-AB7D-458B-93BA-4179CF9ED32B@me.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/52AE0576.5070404@puremagic.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/526C95EC.6060605@erdani.com
http://forum.dlang.org/post/52D72F0A.4030400@puremagic.com

In all, we have 33 posts that were not made by github. Out of 427 that you reported. That's about 94% noise.

I'll note that some of these were posted by newbies that used the forum interface and assumed a post to the "phobos" forum would be the best place to ask a question about phobos. They should have been posted to the main group. Having extra groups that seem more focused is sometimes a bad thing.

>> From a perspective of someone who interacts with the ML through his
> own mail client, I don't feel concerned either about the extraneous
> traffic.  At least I get messages for things that I should be aware
> of.
>
>> From the perspective of someone who sees the ML as a forum though....

My main question here was, doesn't github already allow you to subscribe to this? In the beginning, everyone who was interested was already subscribed to the ML, so it made sense to send messages there. When D was developed on dsource and subversion, it was a way to see all the commits. But there was also much more discussion occurring on these groups. Now, it seems most of the development discussion occurs on pull requests. I don't want to eliminate the possibility of seeing all commits, but I would like to not see all commits. Is there a way we can split the discussion from the commits?

-Steve

On Wednesday, 12 March 2014 at 11:53:50 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
> My main question here was, doesn't github already allow you to subscribe to this?

Actually, I'm subscribed to that, and I don't receive any of the posts of in the dlang phobos list.

I don't see the point of having a forum that simply stores email notifications.

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:32:13 -0400, Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It seems the phobos forum here: http://forum.dlang.org/group/phobos
>
> Has become little more than a mirror of github activity.
>
> Can github activity be auto-mailed to whoever subscribes? If so, why do we need a special mailing list to chronicle github messages?
>
> Similar issues with druntime/dmd-internals. I haven't received a message that was simply addressed to that list in a long long time, everything seems to be github activity.

BTW, for anyone who is interested, I created a mail filter with the following rules, and it has worked since then to remove all the commits from the mailing list feed:

Deliver to "Trash" if

    Sender contains "noreply@github.com"
    Recipient contains "puremagic.com"

This captures all commit messages that are sent to a mailing list that are not github discussions on PRs. All normal mailing list traffic sent by a person are properly received.

Still doesn't fix the web forum, which I think is completely useless at this point. Maybe the above filter can be employed to ignore the messages for the forum software? Will x-post to enhancement request at dfeed.

-Steve

On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:43:50 -0400, Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> BTW, for anyone who is interested, I created a mail filter with the following rules, and it has worked since then to remove all the commits  from the mailing list feed:
>
> Deliver to "Trash" if
>
>      Sender contains "noreply@github.com"
>      Recipient contains "puremagic.com"

This doesn't work any more. Due to the new changes of having mailing list emails always come from @puremagic.com.

Is there ANY way we can find a solution other than the current one? My mail provider will not filter on the "reply-to" field. I can no longer filter emails based on senders any more.

-Steve