So I spent last week (or so) learning D, and it's a great language.
Initially I was apprehensive about GC (non generational, conservative...), but now I realize that I can use D as an improved C (combining malloc and GC :). I always liked C better than C++ anyway.
I know that every bloody n00b here says something about GC :), so now it's my turn. I do hope that non-GC experience will get better in the future. D is cool, though. So, just saying.

On 2017-05-10 07:24, nkm1 wrote:
> So I spent last week (or so) learning D, and it's a great language.
> Initially I was apprehensive about GC (non generational, conservative...), but now I realize that I can use D as an improved C (combining malloc and GC :). I always liked C better than C++ anyway.
> I know that every bloody n00b here says something about GC :), so now it's my turn. I do hope that non-GC experience will get better in the future. D is cool, though. So, just saying.

Somehow totally missed your message, welcome!

After reading all the GC comments on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6as1di/serialization_in_d/
I wish more people could just try it out and experience why the D GC is a handy thing to have on hand.

Well, good to hear you get it.
Have fun and keep on D-ing!

On Friday, 12 May 2017 at 22:05:54 UTC, Faux Amis wrote:
> On 2017-05-10 07:24, nkm1 wrote:
>> So I spent last week (or so) learning D, and it's a great language.
>> Initially I was apprehensive about GC (non generational, conservative...), but now I realize that I can use D as an improved C (combining malloc and GC :). I always liked C better than C++ anyway.
>> I know that every bloody n00b here says something about GC :), so now it's my turn. I do hope that non-GC experience will get better in the future. D is cool, though. So, just saying.
>
> Somehow totally missed your message, welcome!
>
> After reading all the GC comments on reddit:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6as1di/serialization_in_d/
> I wish more people could just try it out and experience why the D GC is a handy thing to have on hand.
>

For who? It is a nightmare(ok, not that bad) for some.

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 at 02:53:16 UTC, Mike B Johnson wrote:
> On Friday, 12 May 2017 at 22:05:54 UTC, Faux Amis wrote:
>>
>> Somehow totally missed your message, welcome!
>>
>> After reading all the GC comments on reddit:
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6as1di/serialization_in_d/
>> I wish more people could just try it out and experience why the D GC is a handy thing to have on hand.
>>
>
> For who? It is a nightmare(ok, not that bad) for some.

I don't think it's about GC per se, it's the sort of GC that D has, in particular that it has to scan all memory (that has pointers) to do collections. If D had the kind of GC that Java/C#/Go have, that would've been different. I read some old threads and learned why D's GC cannot (or should not) be optimized like that, but yeah, scanning so much memory is not acceptable in some situations. And sure, there are ways to deal with that - like not allocating, or using malloc (or that experimental allocator thing that is not totally clear to me :), or using RAII (currently has some bugs), or RefCounted, or Atilla's library... but, as someone on Reddit said, at the moment that is rather "unergonomic".
I'm sure that will get better over time, though. At least I don't see why not. Most of what is needed is already there.

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 at 06:47:54 UTC, nkm1 wrote:

> Atilla's library... but, as someone on Reddit said, at the moment that is rather "unergonomic".
> I'm sure that will get better over time, though. At least I don't see why not. Most of what is needed is already there.

The problem with trying to satisfy Reddit is that they want the GC removed from the language. They want it off by default, they want all language features to work without the GC, they want all of Phobos to be free of the GC, and they want all code anyone else writes in D to be written without the GC in case they want to call that code.

I'm all for adding additional features to the language for those that prefer to avoid the GC. But that's not what the anti-GC coalition is asking for.

On 13/05/2017 12:05 PM, bachmeier wrote:
> On Saturday, 13 May 2017 at 06:47:54 UTC, nkm1 wrote:
>
>> Atilla's library... but, as someone on Reddit said, at the moment that
>> is rather "unergonomic".
>> I'm sure that will get better over time, though. At least I don't see
>> why not. Most of what is needed is already there.
>
> The problem with trying to satisfy Reddit is that they want the GC
> removed from the language. They want it off by default, they want all
> language features to work without the GC, they want all of Phobos to be
> free of the GC, and they want all code anyone else writes in D to be
> written without the GC in case they want to call that code.
>
> I'm all for adding additional features to the language for those that
> prefer to avoid the GC. But that's not what the anti-GC coalition is
> asking for.

Quite frankly if the GC was removed from D, you won't be seeing me around here anymore.
I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't alone in this case. Good chance there would be enough of us to realistically start our own language.

On Sat, 2017-05-13 at 12:20 +0100, rikki cattermole via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 13/05/2017 12:05 PM, bachmeier wrote:
> > On Saturday, 13 May 2017 at 06:47:54 UTC, nkm1 wrote:
> > 
> > > Atilla's library... but, as someone on Reddit said, at the moment
> > > that
> > > is rather "unergonomic".
> > > I'm sure that will get better over time, though. At least I don't
> > > see
> > > why not. Most of what is needed is already there.

How many people on Reddit are actual users of D. How many users on Reddit are actually programmers rather than trolls?

> > The problem with trying to satisfy Reddit is that they want the GC
> > removed from the language. They want it off by default, they want
> > all
> > language features to work without the GC, they want all of Phobos
> > to be
> > free of the GC, and they want all code anyone else writes in D to
> > be
> > written without the GC in case they want to call that code.
> > 
> > I'm all for adding additional features to the language for those
> > that
> > prefer to avoid the GC. But that's not what the anti-GC coalition
> > is
> > asking for.

Reddit users seem to fancy themselves as powerful when most of the time they are j@@@@ getting off on their own supposed self importance. An excellent reasons to ignore them. Most of the programming world does, from what I can see. Certainly none of the people I have contact with in programming places who  make the decisions as to which programming language to use for a projects care what happens on Reddit or what Reddit users think.

The only people who matter in terms of the language D are the people on the D mailing lists and meetings

> Quite frankly if the GC was removed from D, you won't be seeing me
> around here anymore.
> I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't alone in this case. Good chance
> there would be enough of us to realistically start our own language.

Currently Ds only selling point against C++, Go, and Rust is that it has GC, and Go has far more traction that D. Oh and maybe channel communication between processes (albeit heavyweight, and Rust has something similar).

All in all ignore Reddit and get on with satisfying current users and getting traction is the real world.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder

On 05/13/2017 04:47 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:

> Currently Ds only selling point against C++, Go, and Rust is that it
> has GC, and Go has far more traction that D.

I'm confused. Go has GC, right?

Ali

On 5/13/17 7:47 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> All in all ignore Reddit and get on with satisfying current users and
> getting traction is the real world.

I have it on good authority that social media and community forums are important factor in deciding which language to experiment with at companies small and large. We need to improve interaction within our community forums and also improve our presence on the likes of reddit and hackernews. -- Andrei

On Sat, 2017-05-13 at 06:28 -0700, Ali Çehreli via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 05/13/2017 04:47 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> 
>  > Currently Ds only selling point against C++, Go, and Rust is that
> it
>  > has GC, and Go has far more traction that D.
> 
> I'm confused. Go has GC, right?
> 

I was glib with my language. Go definitely has GC and no intention of ever allowing it to be switched off – it would require language changes.

Gos traction has been in Web. It is useful elsewhere, but is not really gaining much traction in other areas that I can see.

-- 
Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder