May 28
On Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 12:28:16 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
> On Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 09:21:09 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>> He did unfortunately manage to convince Atila, so the DIP has been accepted, but based on the discussions, I think that you may be the only person I've seen say anything positive about the DIP treating extern(C) functions as @safe.
>>
>> - Jonathan M Davis
>
> I think Walter had to make a tough call with many tradeoffs. The defining feature of engineering I would say.
>
> Is he wrong? Maybe, I don't know. The obvious path is far from always being a winner.

A winner for what. The reasoning given doesn't make sense. Lots of people have pointed that out, and Walter has yet to expand on that.

> If it does come back to haunt him, he can always add a DIP to make extern(!D) @system by default. It won't invalidate any work.

That's worse. It'll cause huge breakage again if you need to convert extern(C) back to @system after it was converted to @safe. If @system by default proves to be a mistake, you can just flip it to @safe and it won't break any code. Why take a gamble on something that can't be rationalized?
May 29
On 2020-05-27 06:59:28 +0000, Bruce Carneal said:

> Walter has confirmed that this is indeed the case.  As you can read a few posts up his response to my "What am I missing?" query was "Nothing at all."
> 
> Yes, it's really that bad.

Will it be possible to see a report of these "greenwashed" call-chains, so that at least there is a chance to detect them?

-- 
Robert M. Münch
http://www.saphirion.com
smarter | better | faster

May 29
On Friday, 29 May 2020 at 06:55:07 UTC, Robert M. Münch wrote:
> On 2020-05-27 06:59:28 +0000, Bruce Carneal said:
>
>> Walter has confirmed that this is indeed the case.  As you can read a few posts up his response to my "What am I missing?" query was "Nothing at all."
>> 
>> Yes, it's really that bad.
>
> Will it be possible to see a report of these "greenwashed" call-chains, so that at least there is a chance to detect them?

There was indeed activity on the "lets at least make this visible" front until Walter withdrew 1028 about 2 hours ago.  The thread title in the Announce forum is:

 DIP 1028 "Make @safe the default" is dead

May 29
On Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 16:01:35 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote:
> Am Thu, 28 May 2020 12:28:16 +0000 schrieb Sebastiaan Koppe:
>> If it does come back to haunt him, he can always add a DIP to make extern(!D) @system by default. It won't invalidate any work.
>
> This would be another round of massively breaking user code.

The breakage will be split in two rounds, but the amount of code needed to be modified would be the same as with the safe-by-default-except-for-extern-non-c. With the possibility of not needing the second round.

I know, arguing for a lost cause...
May 29
On Friday, 29 May 2020 at 11:33:01 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
> On Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 16:01:35 UTC, Johannes Pfau wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> This would be another round of massively breaking user code.
>
> The breakage will be split in two rounds, but the amount of code needed to be modified would be the same as with the safe-by-default-except-for-extern-non-c. With the possibility of not needing the second round.
>
> I know, arguing for a lost cause...

At the end of the day, I think people would accept "massively breaking user code" if there is a good justification and doesn't drive a hole through @safe.
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