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July 30, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Monday, 30 July 2012 at 23:31:14 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
>
> I empathize. The one thing that may be different is that the 
> forums at forum.dlang.org tend to be a bit more responsive and 
> to the point.

Well, perhaps someone can explain why I can't compile DFL?

I'm getting the same problem as 
[http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/DFL_167579.html]. 
This forum post is over two months old, and yet nobody has fixed 
the problem.

The suggested solutions either [a] didn't help or [b] didn't make 
sense, depending.

>> It's really getting on my tits. Even using MFC is easier than 
>> this.
>
> The irony there is that dmd has started as a Windows program.

I have no problem with DMD. DMD is a perfectly reasonable Windows 
executable. I am objecting to the frustrating way DFL is 
compile-it-yourself and doesn't work; and also the frustrating 
way there isn't a single working IDE or GUI designer for D.
July 30, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
Let me be clear: I have no problem with the language of D. It 
looks quite decent. It's just not feasible to actually write a 
PROGRAM in it. Sure, if I want a quick-and-dirty commandline tool 
or something, no problem; but a Windows application? Without an 
IDE or GUI designer? No way. Even MFC has a dialog designer.

The language is fine: Now the developers need to turn their 
attention to the TOTAL AND UTTER LACK OF RELIABLE DEVELOPMENT 
TOOLS.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On 7/30/12 7:32 PM, Stuart wrote:
> On Monday, 30 July 2012 at 23:07:35 UTC, bearophile wrote:
>> Take a look at the Rebol language.
>
> I took a quick look. It didn't look like anything suitable for creating
> native GUI applications. It looked totally insane.

Yah, that came outta nowhere. I've also had a "wtfits" reaction.

Andrei
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Monday, 30 July 2012 at 23:40:02 UTC, Stuart wrote:
> I have no problem with DMD. DMD is a perfectly reasonable 
> Windows executable. I am objecting to the frustrating way DFL 
> is compile-it-yourself and doesn't work; and also the 
> frustrating way there isn't a single working IDE or GUI 
> designer for D.

If you're willing try yet another IDE, I use Code::Blocks on both 
windows and linux, and while the intellisense or whatever C::B 
calls it is usually a waste of time it is at least completely 
stable and integrates OK with ddbg (which itself is not perfect, 
but...). It recognizes D syntax and it doesn't take 5 minutes to 
start-up. People also seem to like Mono-D.

Like Dmitry said, rdmd can be a big help, since you just compile 
your main and it will find the dependencies.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 00:06:43 UTC, cal wrote:
> On Monday, 30 July 2012 at 23:40:02 UTC, Stuart wrote:
>> I have no problem with DMD. DMD is a perfectly reasonable 
>> Windows executable. I am objecting to the frustrating way DFL 
>> is compile-it-yourself and doesn't work; and also the 
>> frustrating way there isn't a single working IDE or GUI 
>> designer for D.
>
> If you're willing try yet another IDE, I use Code::Blocks on 
> both windows and linux, and while the intellisense or whatever 
> C::B calls it is usually a waste of time it is at least 
> completely stable and integrates OK with ddbg (which itself is 
> not perfect, but...). It recognizes D syntax and it doesn't 
> take 5 minutes to start-up. People also seem to like Mono-D.

I couldn't get C::B to compile anything - either D or C. Mono-D 
didn't work for me either. I guess I'm just cursed.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Monday, 30 July 2012 at 23:40:02 UTC, Stuart wrote:
> On Monday, 30 July 2012 at 23:31:14 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
> wrote:
>>
>> I empathize. The one thing that may be different is that the 
>> forums at forum.dlang.org tend to be a bit more responsive and 
>> to the point.
>
> Well, perhaps someone can explain why I can't compile DFL?

Compiling from here,

https://github.com/Rayerd/dfl

the problem is winapi.d, wincom.d utf.d (not internal\utf.d) are 
all obsolete, and won't compile. Remove those and don't use them 
in your code. Other than that, all I did was

    dmd -lib -ofdfl *.d internal/*.d -I..

From win32/dfl in a MinGW bash shell, because DMD doesn't expand 
wildcards.

Then I tested my new dfl.lib with

import dfl.all;

int main()
{
        Form myForm;
        Label myLabel;

        myForm = new Form;
        myForm.text = "DFL Example";

        myLabel = new Label;
        myLabel.font = new Font("Verdana", 14f);
        myLabel.text = "Hello, DFL World!";
        myLabel.location = Point(15, 15);
        myLabel.autoSize = true;
        myLabel.parent = myForm;

        Application.run(myForm);

        return 0;
}

with

dmd test.d dfl.lib gdi32.lib ole32.lib oleaut32.lib comdlg32.lib 
comctl32.lib

This took me about two minutes to figure out with no prior 
experience with DFL.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, July 31, 2012 01:40:02 Stuart wrote:
> Well, perhaps someone can explain why I can't compile DFL?

Is it even maintained? The page that appears to be its home page ( 
http://www.dprogramming.com/dfl.php ) doesn't appear to have been updated since 
2008.

- Jonathan M Davis
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
Oh, and if there are complaints of LoadLibraryA or whatever not 
being nothrow, remove any trace of nothrow from those modules.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 7/30/12 7:32 PM, Stuart wrote:
>> On Monday, 30 July 2012 at 23:07:35 UTC, bearophile wrote:
>>> Take a look at the Rebol language.
>>
>> I took a quick look. It didn't look like anything suitable for 
>> creating
>> native GUI applications. It looked totally insane.
>
> Yah, that came outta nowhere. I've also had a "wtfits" reaction.

It's a language born in 1997, and it's sometimes used as a more 
modern replacement for TCL to create small programs with GUIs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebol

It semantics is clean, it has everything built-in, its syntax is 
readable and very short. There are many persons that don't think 
of it as insane. I have used it to quickly create GUIs for 
programs written in other languages too.

And it doesn't spit mysterious linker errors. It's far simpler to 
understand than D.

Bye,
bearophile
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
Walter Bright:

Elsewhere you have said:
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/50171A5B.7030002@digitalmars.com

>"DFL won't compile" It doesn't matter if the fix is trivial, 
>easy, whatever. It does not compile, therefore D sux.<

If you have noted the OP has not said D sucks, the opposite:

>The language is fine:<

I agree that having a language perfectly finished is a good 
thing, no one likes broken programs, but programmers can't expect 
D to work as C89, with no changes since many years ago.

A problem is that most people don't understand mangled linker 
errors. I agree with you that linkers are not magic, but modern 
programmers coming from many other languages are not used to them 
and their mangled errors. So we have suggested to filter those 
messages, to help programmers.

The lack of reliable D tools is only partially caused by changes 
in D, another important cause is the small size of the D 
community.

Giving good ways to manage deprecations is a good way to help. 
Giving the programmer ways to fix or solve the problems is 
another way to help.

Recently I have suggested to change the signature of the third 
std.algorithm.count from:
size_t count(alias pred = "true", Range)(Range r);

To:
size_t count(alias pred = "a", Range)(Range r);

But Andrei has refused this tiny change because it breaks old 
code. Introducing ways to manage change & deprecation is going to 
help the development of D more than freezing everything :-)

Bye,
bearophile
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