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July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 09:33:57 UTC, David wrote:
>> It's not D itself I have a problem with. It's the complete 
>> lack of reliable tools for it. No IDE. No GUI designer. No 
>> nothing. Coding a real application in D is like using Cobra, 
>> or Nemerle - in short, frustrating and slow.
>
> Mh, if this is *your* opinion, why are you using D then?

Of course it's *my* opinion. Whose else opinion would it be?

And that's just the point. I'm *not* using D. I *want* to be 
using D, and I've been *trying* to use D, but I keep hitting 
strange compiler errors and libraries that won't compile (i.e. 
DFL).

I like D. It's been well-thought-out. But without tools, how can 
it be used? Yeah, I know, many of you don't use IDEs - but tell 
me this. How can I write a GUI? Whether you like GUIs is beside 
the point: Applications need them. There's no point writing a 
decent-sized program without one. And yet (without DFL) you have 
no library support for them whatsoever. To create a window or a 
button, I must use CreateWindow(). To handle events, I must use 
GetMessageA(). To resize controls when the parent window changes 
size, I have to do it all by hand, in code.

DFL and intellisense. Those are the areas this project is lacking.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 10:59:49 UTC, Don Clugston wrote:
>
> Yeah, we still have *miles* to go on the toolchain. As a 
> community we've been putting most of our effort into getting 
> the compiler stable, and to a lesser extent working on the the 
> standard library. Most of the other things are one-man shows.
> The Eclipse plugin and DFL have both been abandoned for years.
> Mono-D and VisualD are progressing quite well but again they 
> are only one-man shows.
>
> We need more people.

Agreed. I don't know if I can help much - I'm not an expert on 
low-level things like compilers and such, and I do my best work 
in .NET; but there may be something I can do. Maybe write a 
better IDE, with intellisense, I dunno. It'd have to be .NET 
based.

Or maybe I could work with you guys on devising a new DFL. I've 
had loads of experience with the .NET standard library for GUIs 
(System.Windows.Forms). I don't have much experience in the D 
language, but if it was a joint effort, that wouldn't matter so 
much. What does everyone think? (Except Jakob, who thinks I'm 
ignorant)
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 11:20:53 UTC, bearophile wrote:
>
>> Mh, if this is *your* opinion, why are you using D then?
>
> Because its community is helpful and friendly :-)

lol ;)
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
> How can I write a GUI?

as i understand gtkD is actively maintained and even already prepared 
for the next dmd release version 2.060.

https://github.com/gtkd-developers/GtkD
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 00:30:50 UTC, Bernard Helyer wrote:
> Oh, and if there are complaints of LoadLibraryA or whatever not 
> being nothrow, remove any trace of nothrow from those modules.

Yeah, that didn't work.

bash.exe"-3.1$ dmd -lib -ofdfl *.d internal/*.d -I..
DFL: dfl.com is deprecated, please import dfl.internal.com; 
dfl.com is provided
for compatibility only
folderdialog.d(33): Error: cannot implicitly convert expression 
(& fbdHookProc)
of type extern (Windows) int function(void* hwnd, uint msg, int 
lparam, int lpDa
ta) to extern (Windows) int function(void* hwnd, uint uMsg, int 
lParam, int lpDa
ta) nothrow
fontdialog.d(30): Error: cannot implicitly convert expression (& 
fondHookProc) o
f type extern (Windows) uint function(void*, uint, uint, int) to 
extern (Windows
) uint function(void* hdlg, uint uiMsg, uint wParam, int lParam) 
nothrow

Sigh.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 17:16:56 UTC, Stuart wrote:
>
>> Your swipes at Linux are ignorant and non-constructive.
>
> Ignorant? I'm no expert, certainly, but ignorant?

Yes, ignorant. You're an ignorant fool. Worst part is you don't
even know it.

>
> I never said D was crap. I said its tools don't work. I was 
> disappointed that I couldn't use D to write an application. 
> Does that sound like someone who doesn't like the language?
>
>> Your issues with compiling DFL are rooted completely in your 
>> own ignorance of the C/C++/D compilation model.
>
> Er, no. Before I used .NET, I used C++ almost exclusively for a 
> number of years. I'm a little out of practice, but I understand 
> the general principles involved.

No you don't, or you wouldn't have asked the question in the first
place.

>
>> You have a lot to learn and you should know that by now.
>
> Oh, now, that's going too far. Do you think I'm some kind of 
> programming newbie? A college student, perhaps? I have a BSc in 
> Software Engineering, and I've been coding for 16 years.

Well jesus, a BSc, aren't you just a fucking genius.


Fuck off. Stop wasting our time.
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On 7/31/12, Stuart <stugol@gmx.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 00:30:50 UTC, Bernard Helyer wrote:
>> Oh, and if there are complaints of LoadLibraryA or whatever not
>> being nothrow, remove any trace of nothrow from those modules.
>
> Yeah, that didn't work.

I've had some success with using DGui, which seems to be loosely based
on DFL. http://code.google.com/p/dgui/

It seems to compile with DMD 2.059, although it needs fixing for the
upcoming 2.060.

Personally if I maintained DFL I'd make a simpler build script because
there were many posts about failing to build DFL over the last years..
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 17:16:56 UTC, Stuart wrote:
> Lately? I've only recently discovered D. What are you comparing 
> my current noise level to? Besides, most of my posts have been 
> constructive, to my mind. Granted, I got a bit frustrated 
> yesterday, but so what?


There's only one answer I could imagine: 
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 17:16:56 UTC, Stuart wrote:
> Oh, now, that's going too far. Do you think I'm some kind of 
> programming newbie? A college student, perhaps? I have a BSc in 
> Software Engineering, and I've been coding for 16 years. So 
> let's have less of the condescension, hmm?

errr I meant this :)
July 31, 2012
Re: Incomprehensible compiler errors
On 31-Jul-12 21:35, Stuart wrote:
> On Tuesday, 31 July 2012 at 10:59:49 UTC, Don Clugston wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, we still have *miles* to go on the toolchain. As a community
>> we've been putting most of our effort into getting the compiler
>> stable, and to a lesser extent working on the the standard library.
>> Most of the other things are one-man shows.
>> The Eclipse plugin and DFL have both been abandoned for years.
>> Mono-D and VisualD are progressing quite well but again they are only
>> one-man shows.
>>
>> We need more people.
>
> Agreed. I don't know if I can help much - I'm not an expert on low-level
> things like compilers and such, and I do my best work in .NET; but there
> may be something I can do. Maybe write a better IDE, with intellisense,
> I dunno. It'd have to be .NET based.
>

Mono-D is .NET based. You can provide some help for its developer  since 
it's not working for you, a good first step would be to identify problem 
and fix it.


-- 
Dmitry Olshansky
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