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November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 06:31:45PM -0600, 1100110 wrote:
[...]
> Oh! while I have your attention...  Looking at the makefiles for
> DMD, all of them are set to build 32bit by default.  Usually that is
> unset, and the environment that you are compiling in dictates which
> one is implicitly chosen.
> 
> Why have it set to build 32 by default?  It's not an issue or
> anything, but it's been a long time since I've had a setup capable
> of build  32bit apps easily.  I always have to change that.  Is
> there any particular reason that that option is set rather than
> unset?

Rarely known fact: you can invoke make like this:

	make -f posix.mak MODEL=64

There is no need to change the environment.

(I don't know about Windows make, but I suspect something similar, if
not the same, is possible.)


T

-- 
There is no gravity. The earth sucks.
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On 11/29/2012 11:31 AM, 1100110 wrote:
> Why have it set to build 32 by default?  It's not an issue or anything,
> but it's been a long time since I've had a setup capable of build  32bit
> apps easily.  I always have to change that.  Is there any particular
> reason that that option is set rather than unset?

Something has to be the default, and that dates back to when D was only 
implemented on 32 bit targets.

Anyhow, I usually use a custom makefile to drive the dmd makefiles, 
setting the various macros as appropriate for my setup, so the defaults 
are kinda irrelevant.
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
eskimo:

> Even the unstable branch should stop adding new features let's 
> say at
> least three months before the next stable release, so all 
> things in
> stable have been tested at least a certain minimum amount of 
> time in
> unstable. (People can still work on new features, but only in 
> separate
> feature branches, which will not be part of the next stable 
> release.)

Maybe there are alternative ways to do this.

But generally I agree with your post and I suggest to make a 
little DEP out of it, or to copy your post somewhere in the Wiki, 
to make it the starting point (to be improved, where necessary) 
document for the future D development process.

Bye,
bearophile
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On 11/28/2012 06:50 PM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 06:31:45PM -0600, 1100110 wrote:
> [...]
>> Oh! while I have your attention...  Looking at the makefiles for
>> DMD, all of them are set to build 32bit by default.  Usually that is
>> unset, and the environment that you are compiling in dictates which
>> one is implicitly chosen.
>>
>> Why have it set to build 32 by default?  It's not an issue or
>> anything, but it's been a long time since I've had a setup capable
>> of build  32bit apps easily.  I always have to change that.  Is
>> there any particular reason that that option is set rather than
>> unset?
>
> Rarely known fact: you can invoke make like this:
>
> 	make -f posix.mak MODEL=64
>
> There is no need to change the environment.
>
> (I don't know about Windows make, but I suspect something similar, if
> not the same, is possible.)
>
>
> T
>

I know, I just have a bad habit of digging through makefiles and such 
before Ill run them.  When its literally right under the cursor its just 
easier to edit it.  I was really just curious why it wasn't left undefined.

It *seems* to be building fine without that option defined, and with the 
way Linux is going I simply cannot believe that I'm the only one for 
whom that messes up a default build.
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 01:51:52AM +0100, bearophile wrote:
> eskimo:
> 
> >Even the unstable branch should stop adding new features let's say at
> >least three months before the next stable release, so all things in
> >stable have been tested at least a certain minimum amount of time in
> >unstable. (People can still work on new features, but only in
> >separate feature branches, which will not be part of the next stable
> >release.)
> 
> Maybe there are alternative ways to do this.
> 
> But generally I agree with your post and I suggest to make a little
> DEP out of it, or to copy your post somewhere in the Wiki, to make it
> the starting point (to be improved, where necessary) document for the
> future D development process.
[...]

I think ultimately, as Walter has said, nothing is going to change
unless somebody steps up to the plate and champions the effort to make a
stable branch. Writing up proposals, specs, and other docs are good in
theory, but won't accomplish a thing if nobody actually *does* anything
about it. I think 1100110 has stepped up to make a stable branch; let's
work with him to make it actually happen.


T

-- 
"I'm running Windows '98." "Yes." "My computer isn't working now." "Yes,
you already said that." -- User-Friendly
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On Thursday, 29 November 2012 at 01:06:15 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> I think ultimately, as Walter has said, nothing is going to 
> change
> unless somebody steps up to the plate and champions the effort 
> to make a
> stable branch. Writing up proposals, specs, and other docs are 
> good in
> theory, but won't accomplish a thing if nobody actually *does* 
> anything
> about it. I think 1100110 has stepped up to make a stable 
> branch; let's
> work with him to make it actually happen.
>

I'm sorry, but I don't see how a champion can prevent stuff to be 
dropped directly into master, unless going to some extreme and 
sequestrate people, which is illegal in most countries.
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On Thursday, November 29, 2012 02:13:10 deadalnix wrote:
> On Thursday, 29 November 2012 at 01:06:15 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > I think ultimately, as Walter has said, nothing is going to
> > change
> > unless somebody steps up to the plate and champions the effort
> > to make a
> > stable branch. Writing up proposals, specs, and other docs are
> > good in
> > theory, but won't accomplish a thing if nobody actually *does*
> > anything
> > about it. I think 1100110 has stepped up to make a stable
> > branch; let's
> > work with him to make it actually happen.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't see how a champion can prevent stuff to be
> dropped directly into master, unless going to some extreme and
> sequestrate people, which is illegal in most countries.

Since master will almost certainly be the development branch, I don't see how 
that's a problem. The stable branch will be a separate branch, and whoever is 
managing the stable branch will merge stuff from the master branch into it.

Granted, major stuff like 64-bit Windows support and UDAs should probably be 
introduced on branches separate from master, and it's still a problem if 
they're not, but it won't affect the stable branch if they're not.

- Jonathan M Davis
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 02:13:10AM +0100, deadalnix wrote:
> On Thursday, 29 November 2012 at 01:06:15 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >I think ultimately, as Walter has said, nothing is going to change
> >unless somebody steps up to the plate and champions the effort to
> >make a stable branch. Writing up proposals, specs, and other docs are
> >good in theory, but won't accomplish a thing if nobody actually
> >*does* anything about it. I think 1100110 has stepped up to make a
> >stable branch; let's work with him to make it actually happen.
> >
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't see how a champion can prevent stuff to be
> dropped directly into master, unless going to some extreme and
> sequestrate people, which is illegal in most countries.

Huh? Who said anything about master being stable? Obviously master is
unstable by definition, since that's where the development work is being
done. The whole point was to introduce a stable branch where we only
pull in non-breaking changes from master.


T

-- 
"Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. :-)" -- Larry Wall
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On Thursday, 29 November 2012 at 01:29:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
wrote:
> Since master will almost certainly be the development branch, I 
> don't see how
> that's a problem. The stable branch will be a separate branch, 
> and whoever is
> managing the stable branch will merge stuff from the master 
> branch into it.
>

In this case, all bug fixes are mixed with new feature and then 
have to be separated afterward and remerged into the stable 
branch. This is useless work and it is likely to cause merge 
conflict in the stable branch.

Additionnaly, this become to really suck when several new 
features are dev at the same time.

Finally, yhis is completely inconsistent with how github work in 
the first place.

master make sense as an unstable branch, a release candidate, a 
beta or whatever, but certainly not a dev branch.

> Granted, major stuff like 64-bit Windows support and UDAs 
> should probably be
> introduced on branches separate from master, and it's still a 
> problem if
> they're not, but it won't affect the stable branch if they're 
> not.
>

It will become all bigfixes will be based on code that contains 
the new feature.
November 29, 2012
Re: Breaking D2 language/spec changes with D1 being discontinued in a month
On Thursday, 29 November 2012 at 01:30:42 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Huh? Who said anything about master being stable? Obviously 
> master is
> unstable by definition, since that's where the development work 
> is being
> done. The whole point was to introduce a stable branch where we 
> only
> pull in non-breaking changes from master.
>

unstable != dev
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