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November 02, 2012
Scaling Scala Vs Java
This blog post shows few interesting aspects of the Scala 
ecosystem:

http://jazzy.id.au/default/2012/11/02/scaling_scala_vs_java.html

Bye,
bearophile
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
On 11/1/12 11:26 PM, bearophile wrote:
> This blog post shows few interesting aspects of the Scala ecosystem:
>
> http://jazzy.id.au/default/2012/11/02/scaling_scala_vs_java.html
>
> Bye,
> bearophile

I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID philobear 
discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.

Andrei
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
Andrei Alexandrescu:

> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID 
> philobear discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.

It's very important to look at how other very good languages 
solve common problems :-)

Bye,
bearophile
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
On Friday, 2 November 2012 at 04:18:00 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
> On 11/1/12 11:26 PM, bearophile wrote:
>> This blog post shows few interesting aspects of the Scala 
>> ecosystem:
>>
>> http://jazzy.id.au/default/2012/11/02/scaling_scala_vs_java.html
>>
>> Bye,
>> bearophile
>
> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID 
> philobear discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.
>
> Andrei

I don't know I think it is kind of cool we have what I guess is a 
very unique contributer to the forums.
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 11/1/12 11:26 PM, bearophile wrote:
> >This blog post shows few interesting aspects of the Scala ecosystem:
> >
> >http://jazzy.id.au/default/2012/11/02/scaling_scala_vs_java.html
> >
> >Bye,
> >bearophile
> 
> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID
> philobear discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.

:)
What a nice dream.

Jens
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
On Friday, 2 November 2012 at 04:33:33 UTC, bearophile wrote:
> Andrei Alexandrescu:
>
>> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID 
>> philobear discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.
>
> It's very important to look at how other very good languages 
> solve common problems :-)

While i like many of your posts on different languages, there are 
also too much noise. I now realize that noise cost me a great 
deal. After nearly 10 years of programming i finally gave a try 
to lisp, just because of a phrase "programmable programming 
language".

This might offend some people but i have to say regardless. Lisp 
is the most beautiful language i have seen. If i didn't need a 
system language there would be no reason for me to drop 
everything else but only use it.

It took me 10 years to get to know it because of no advertisement 
and the noise and the hatred generated by 1000s other random 
languages that cater mediocre programmers and the "business".

Because of similar reasons, i worry about D's future too. When a 
language is powerful, it creates programmers that is not 
replaceable and we know it is not a good thing.
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
On Friday, 2 November 2012 at 10:09:10 UTC, so wrote:
> On Friday, 2 November 2012 at 04:33:33 UTC, bearophile wrote:
>> Andrei Alexandrescu:
>>
>>> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID 
>>> philobear discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.
>>
>> It's very important to look at how other very good languages 
>> solve common problems :-)
>
> While i like many of your posts on different languages, there 
> are also too much noise. I now realize that noise cost me a 
> great deal. After nearly 10 years of programming i finally gave 
> a try to lisp, just because of a phrase "programmable 
> programming language".
>
> This might offend some people but i have to say regardless. 
> Lisp is the most beautiful language i have seen. If i didn't 
> need a system language there would be no reason for me to drop 
> everything else but only use it.
>
> It took me 10 years to get to know it because of no 
> advertisement and the noise and the hatred generated by 1000s 
> other random languages that cater mediocre programmers and the 
> "business".
>
> Because of similar reasons, i worry about D's future too. When 
> a language is powerful, it creates programmers that is not 
> replaceable and we know it is not a good thing.


That is currently the problem in my line of work. Nowadays 
enterprise applications are all JVM or .NET based.

C++ in the cloud is viewed as something for the HPC crowd.

Finance enterprise world is currently jumping to the FP boat.

Enterprise mobile applications are use the platform default tools 
or are web based anyway.

This leaves little space free for D in the enterprise. :(


--
Paulo
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
On 11/02/2012 12:18 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID philobear
> discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.

You're lucky to have bearophile on this group. Cross-pollination is a 
good thing.
November 02, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
On 11/2/12 9:53 AM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
> On 11/02/2012 12:18 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>
>> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID
>> philobear discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.
>
> You're lucky to have bearophile on this group. Cross-pollination is a
>  good thing.

Cross-pollination is a good thing indeed. The pattern I'm not a fan of
is posting entries scraped from reddit or google searches, featuring
little insightful filtering or added value, and with the
all-too-transparent bias "language X does/doesn't Y, we don't do/do it,
so we either should change D or agree to being troglodytes". A telling
example that got me as close to cursing to my monitor as any other forum
post is:

> You should show more respect for them and their work. Their ideas
> seem very far from being crazy. They have also proved their type
> system to be sound. This kind of work is lightyears ahead of the
> usual sloppy designs you see in D features, where design holes are
> found only years later, when sometimes it's too much late to fix
> them :)

In one breath we get a call to respect for people who are unknown to the 
poster and unlikely to ever read this, a gratuitous insult to people who 
are active on this forum and have long interacted with the poster, a 
complete lack of consideration for the many differences between the 
dynamics of a language design focused on one feature group in an 
academic context versus the realities of designing and implementing a 
general-purpose language with many conflicting requirements, and a 
tactless attempt at making it look like a joke. Quite the handiwork.

A better approach would take into account the rich context established
by each language's environment and how an end goal can be accomplished 
without wheelbarrowing features from other languages just because they 
have them.


Andrei
December 06, 2012
Re: Scaling Scala Vs Java
On 02/11/2012 04:18, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 11/1/12 11:26 PM, bearophile wrote:
>> This blog post shows few interesting aspects of the Scala ecosystem:
>>
>> http://jazzy.id.au/default/2012/11/02/scaling_scala_vs_java.html
>>
>> Bye,
>> bearophile
>

Ahh... some things never change... -_-'

> I have a dream that one day there will be a guy with the ID philobear
> discussing D-related stuff on Java and Scala forums.
>
> Andrei


It seems such a dream will only come true if you find a way to step into 
a bizarro, alternate dimension...


-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
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