On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 05:48:55AM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 16:51:32 -0700
> "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
[...]
> > Yeah ever since my wife got an iPhone, our attempts to fall asleep have been constantly interrupted by annoying dings and zings every so often from stray emails, notifications,
> 
> Yup.
> 
> >people sending text messages
> > in the middle of the night for no good reason, etc..
> > 
> 
> Call me a disgruntled die-hard IM fan, but I always got annoyed at people who took issue with odd-hour SMS. Whether GAIM, Outlook, or SMS, if you don't want incoming messages interrupting you, then *turn the damn speakers off*. Makes no damn sense to leave it on and then bitch about what's obviously going to happen.

Mind you, I do tell her to just turn the thing off at the first ding. But that's already too late if it happens at 3am and I can't fall back to sleep. :-P

I guess the annoyance factor comes from the fact that the first ding or two is generally ignorable -- a ding in the middle of the night once in a while is OK, I'll just turn over and forget about it. But after the thing keeps going off 5-6 times in a row, I feel a rather strong urge to chuck it out the window (or apply a Large Blunt Instrument).


> Of course, these stupid devices will also vibrate and light up and do everything short of spray water and smack you in the face, but really that's just part of a bigger problem: They need to have a proper, convenient, sleep mode anyway.  They can call it a "shut the fucking thing up" mode. :)

Y'know what would be an awesome feature? A configurable volume level scheduler, like those old turn-on-the-light-at-night power dials, that automatically shuts off the volume at night, and turns it back on in the morning.

Better yet, turn it off during the times in the week where you're in a library / concert / meeting when it shouldn't be going off. Get enough people to use it, and we might stop having to make the now-obligatory announcement "please turn off your cellphones" all the time (and have people *still* get loud noisy ringtones in the middle of it).

Anybody wanna code up a D app for this? It might be the killer app that makes D famous. ;-)


> Neither of my Palm devices ever pulled any of that "look at me! look at me!" shit (Well, aside from the alarms that I *deliberately* set, and also twice a year when DST would start/end - but even then it didn't go nearly as multisensory-hyperactive as this iStuff does every time one of your contacts types or farts or whatever...and on iOS the stupid thing does it *twice*...I got so sick of that damn thing *repeating* every fucking SMS I received whenever I chose not to give it the attention it demanded. iOS really makes me miss Apple 2).

Heh.

Funny anecdote: I used to have such fond memories of the old Apple II and all the good ole programs it had, until one day, in a fit of nostalgia, I decided to fire up an Apple emulator and load up one of those old skool Apple II games that, in my memory, was so awesome and so much better than today's offerings. I was confronted with the good ole ']' Applesoft Basic prompt, and the next few minutes was a nostalgia-shattering experience of realizing to my horror that I had forgotten most of the DOS commands and being rewarded with the utterly unfriendly and unhelpful "?SYNTAX ERROR" message.

When I finally got the game to load up, I tried playing it through for the next half hour or so, and discovered to my chagrin that it was a LOT worse than I had remembered it. The interface sucked, the gameplay mechanics were boring, and the content was shallow. I suppose we tend to only retain the good memories; experiencing the real thing again after so many decades confronted me with the stark reality that the good ole days, perhaps, weren't *that* good after all. :-(


> > We try to make the best of it, though. I set my morning alarm to a rooster call, and she set hers to dogs barking. A hilarious way to wake up. :-P
> > 
> 
> Heh. If I faced that every morning, both devices would end up launched out the window within the first week ;)

Well, it's different when you deliberately set it up to do that. :-P


[...]
> > Yeah I could never figure out what was running in the background on my old iPod. And couldn't find a way to manage background tasks either.  It would just run slower and slower until a crawl, and then finally just freeze and fail to respond to anything (or run at 1 screen update every 5 minutes -- completely unusable). Then it's time for the two-finger salute -- power + home for 10 seconds to hard-reboot the contraption.
> > 
> 
> On the iPhones, you can hold the button (uhh, yea, *THE* button) for a couple secs (don't recall if you have to already be on the home screen) and it'll show a taskbar/dock-like thing that's basically equivalent to Android 4's task switcher (except tinier). But like I said, I could never tell whether or not iOS included "recently used but not running" junk in that like Android does. Or if it was even some sort of "suspended apps" thing. Or whatever. It never gave any indication what was going on with them.

I find the task switcher in Android only marginally useful. Mainly it's a "recently-used apps" list for loading up a recent app that's otherwise buried too deeply in the reams of pages of mostly-useless apps. Most of the time, due to the location of the menu button, I end up accidentally calling up the task switcher just because my right palm happens to hover over the touch screen too closely, and it would switch out from under me to another app at the next touch, usually while I was in the middle of doing something else. Rather annoying.

The task *manager*, OTOH, is eminently useful for killing off unwanted background processes. :)  Including core android processes, if you so wish... I haven't dared to try that yet. :-P


> > After I got all the data and apps I needed on my Android, I retired the iPod and haven't turned back since.
> > 
> 
> Yea, the only reason I'd ever have an iHipster device at this
> point would be for cross-platform mobile development. There's plenty I
> hate about Android even compared to iOS (The VMed systems API, and
> Google persistently trying to get you to give them all your personal
> data, as opposed to Apple's native code and "Don't wanna use iCloud?
> Ok, yea sure, back everything up directly to your own computer then,
> that's cool with us.")

I created a separate google persona just for my Android. I only use it for the apps that utterly refuse to work without it, like the various calendar apps. So far I've managed to stay away from the google+ app, dropbox, facebook, and all of the other stuff that insists on accessing stuff they shouldn't need to access in order to function. It always makes me suspicious when, for example, a single-player game app requires "full internet access", sometimes "access to personal account info", etc.. Why on earth does a single-player game need to access the internet?! If it were on my desktop PC, I'd run it only inside a sandbox prepped with a virtual network populated with honeypots. :-P


> But overall, Android is definitely less irritating, less idiotic (ex: sideways keyboard is accessible *consistently*, user-selectable default apps for various things), and is just overall the lesser of the two evils.

I found Android *far* more configurable to my liking than any of the iOfferings. On the iPod/iPhone I feel like I'm trying to climb Mt. Everest with my left foot glued to my right ear, just because Somebody decided that you have to do things that way, and that way alone.


[...]
> > You *could* just move it to your front screen, y'know! ;-) That's what the home button's for. Two clicks to kill off a misbehaving app (of which there are too many, sad to say -- browsers being one of the frequent offenders).
> > 
> 
> Hmm, I could have sworn that on mine the task manager was simply a somewhat buried *part* of the settings program. I guess it's kinda been awhile though.

I dunno, on my Android (icecream sandwich) it's a separate app. Took me a while to find it, though. My phone came with way too many useless apps preinstalled. One of these days I need to get around to uninstalling apps that I never use.


> In any case, that's still not as nice as if the task switcher simply didn't insist on cluttering itself with "recently used" junk that isn't even running. But yea, sticking the task manager on home would have at least been an improvement.

I thought the task switcher was basically a "recently used" list. If you wanna know what's *actually* running, use the task manager. :)


[...]
> > > Last I heard you do still have to use a Mac to submit to the App Store, and again, you have to use that one particular proprietary toolkit (which also means no D), but at least it's *possible* to make iOS stuff without putting up with OSX.
> > [...]
> > 
> > Good luck having D apps accepted by the App Store.
> 
> I'd be surprised if those dumbfucks in App Store Approvals would even notice.
[...]

They'd notice if your app was a superior browser that threatens the dominance of Safari. :) Or a video player that *gasp* can play more formats than the crippled built-in video player can (*ahem*VLC player*cough*). Basically anything that threatens the dominance of Apple's own offerings. (I'm not making this up -- google for why VLC player was removed from AppStore. Or why only Opera Mobile Mini exists in AppStore.)


T

-- 
Two wrongs don't make a right; but three rights do make a left...

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 12:21:24 -0700
"H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
> 
> and all of the other stuff that insists on
> accessing stuff they shouldn't need to access in order to function.
> It always makes me suspicious when, for example, a single-player game
> app requires "full internet access", sometimes "access to personal
> account info", etc.. Why on earth does a single-player game need to
> access the internet?!

To retrieve the advertisements to show you (at least for the free games). But aside from that, yea. I often got the feeling the developers were just leaving all those "this app uses XXXX" flags enabled just for the hell of it. But I was also fearful that I might be wrong about that.

> 
> > But overall, Android is definitely less irritating, less idiotic (ex: sideways keyboard is accessible *consistently*, user-selectable default apps for various things), and is just overall the lesser of the two evils.
> 
> I found Android *far* more configurable to my liking than any of the iOfferings.

Yea, definitely. Apple in general is very anti-configuration and anti-choice. That was one of the big things that drove me away from OSX back when I was using it.

Android is even more configurable though if you have it rooted and use CyanogenMod. In fact, personally, I don't see much reason not to run CyanogenMod. They do a good job - it's really just Android with more options and fewer restrictions.


> On the iPod/iPhone I feel like I'm trying to climb Mt.
> Everest with my left foot glued to my right ear, just because Somebody
> decided that you have to do things that way, and that way alone.
> 

Good analogy :)

> 
> I dunno, on my Android (icecream sandwich) it's a separate app. Took
> me a while to find it, though.

I don't know which one that is. I was using 4.0, whatever goofy pointless codename that is. (Ehh, But at least they're alphabetical, unlike Debian's "random Toy Story character" bullshit.)

Anyway, there's probably a good chance I just overlooked the direct task manager program, or saw it and just didn't think to "home" it.

> 
> 
> > In any case, that's still not as nice as if the task switcher simply didn't insist on cluttering itself with "recently used" junk that isn't even running. But yea, sticking the task manager on home would have at least been an improvement.
> 
> I thought the task switcher was basically a "recently used" list.

That's probably a good way to think of it. That *is* what it ultimately amounts to. I'd rather have a proper task switcher, though. Accessing frequently used functionality is what the home screen is already there for.

>  If
> you wanna know what's *actually* running, use the task manager. :)
> 

Yea, next time I have an Android device I'll make sure to remember to "pin" the task manager.


> > > 
> > > Good luck having D apps accepted by the App Store.
> > 
> > I'd be surprised if those dumbfucks in App Store Approvals would even notice.
> [...]
> 
> They'd notice if your app was a superior browser that threatens the dominance of Safari. :)

So very true :(

It absolutely amazes me that Microsoft caught hell for merely installing their browser by default, and yet Apple doesn't even raise an eyebrow for outright banning all other browser engines.

Clearly Steve Jobs has managed to install Apple as our society's newest sacred cow. I wish he was still alive so I could destroy him myself.

> Or a video player that *gasp* can play more
> formats than the crippled built-in video player can (*ahem*VLC
> player*cough*). Basically anything that threatens the dominance of
> Apple's own offerings. (I'm not making this up -- google for why VLC
> player was removed from AppStore. Or why only Opera Mobile Mini exists
> in AppStore.)
> 

Yea. Apple == Big Brother (well, Google too TBH, but just with a different emphasis: Google surveillance vs Apple micro-managing).

To buy an Apple product is to pay them to take your freedoms away. And it doesn't even stop at Apple's own users. Apple takes their random $'S and the monopolies they purchase from Federal Monopolies 'R Us (aka "USPTO") and go on the rampage against any company that threatens their dominance. The ghost of Job's personal vendettas is alive and well at Apple HQ.

Seriously, people bitch about MS (and rightfully so), but Apple makes MS
look like the fucking FSF.

On 07/08/2013 09:24 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 12:55:57AM -0500, 1100110 wrote:
> [...]
>> And I haven't experienced the battery issues mentioned.
> [...]
>> The battery will last half a day with my usage.
> [...]
>
> Heh.
>
> The original complaint was that I have to charge the device every day.
> And now you're telling me that charging *twice* a day is not an issue?
>
> :-)
>
>
> T
>

I also explained that I'm literally constantly on my phone.
Reddit, web browsing, texting...

I remember my old sony ericson phone would last multiple days, but I couldn't browse the web, couldn't send picture messages, etc.  Literally call and text was all it was capable of.

I honestly think that for the amount I use it, and the amount of things I use it for, charging *once* (overnight doesn't count! =P ) in the middle of the day isn't a bad tradeoff.

It'll last all day if I just don't use it of course.


You can still buy the old nokia bricks(that's meant as a complement) if you only want basic usage and multiple day battery life.

But me?  I'm just glad to actually have internet access in my pocket. It was around 2005 before I had reliable access to the internet (that didn't involve me stealing it from someone else).

On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 12:21:24 -0700
"H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
> 
> They'd notice if your app was a superior browser that threatens the dominance of Safari. :) Or a video player that *gasp* can play more formats than the crippled built-in video player can (*ahem*VLC player*cough*). Basically anything that threatens the dominance of Apple's own offerings. (I'm not making this up -- google for why VLC player was removed from AppStore. Or why only Opera Mobile Mini exists in AppStore.)
> 

If I'm not mistaken, maps is another example. IIRC, Didn't Apple kill off Google Maps when they released their own famously broken map/gps program? (With text boxes that look like road signs! Whoohoo! Hooray for iPatronization!)

On Monday, 8 July 2013 at 19:22:59 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:

> Y'know what would be an awesome feature? A configurable volume level
> scheduler, like those old turn-on-the-light-at-night power dials, that
> automatically shuts off the volume at night, and turns it back on in the
> morning.
>
> Better yet, turn it off during the times in the week where you're in a
> library / concert / meeting when it shouldn't be going off. Get enough
> people to use it, and we might stop having to make the now-obligatory
> announcement "please turn off your cellphones" all the time (and have
> people *still* get loud noisy ringtones in the middle of it).
>
> Anybody wanna code up a D app for this? It might be the killer app that
> makes D famous. ;-)

Well in Android there is Tasker. I have it play music when I leave work and if I have the headphones plugged in. It is easy to have it adjust volume at specific times of the day/location.

On Saturday, 6 July 2013 at 01:33:09 UTC, dnewbie wrote:
> Hi. It's time for the annual poll of the year. Please vote
> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=51d766e4e4b03d6de547a64b


Here are the results.

           2012 2013
<1 year     27%  21%
1-2 years   25%  27%
3-5 years   28%  31%
6-10 years  19%  21%
Total votes 212  201

Oh noes! We have an aging population!
We're all gonna need the pension soon... who's gonna pay the rent! O_O


On 15 July 2013 11:32, dnewbie <run3@myopera.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 6 July 2013 at 01:33:09 UTC, dnewbie wrote:
>
>> Hi. It's time for the annual poll of the year. Please vote http://www.easypolls.net/poll.**html?p=**51d766e4e4b03d6de547a64b<http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=51d766e4e4b03d6de547a64b>
>>
>
>
> Here are the results.
>
>            2012 2013
> <1 year     27%  21%
> 1-2 years   25%  27%
> 3-5 years   28%  31%
> 6-10 years  19%  21%
> Total votes 212  201
>
>