How fast is D compilation compared to C++? (page 2)

On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 10:47:24 UTC, IGotD- wrote:

On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 08:49:46 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:

[...]

Because it is how the D project is managed. If I would have been a project manager, that alone would be enough to avoid the language. There is also significant resistance to evolve the language which is needed. D is a product of the 90s but the world has moved on from there. C# is also a product of the 90s but has evolved with time. This is really sad because D is really a nice language but a lost opportunity.

[...]

Hmm, I see your point. But isn't Swift painfully slow to compile? 🤔

Disclaimer: I'm basing that on information from third-parties, I haven't tried it myself.

September 24, 2022

Re: How fast is D compilation compared to C++?

Posted by IGotD-
in reply to Tejas

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IGotD-

Posted in reply to Tejas

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On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 11:24:11 UTC, Tejas wrote:

What kind of requirements? They even have officially suppported Windows realeases now, no Apple-ism in sight, AFAICT

Maybe this is too much OT.

Swift was made open source a while ago and as a consequence of that is that people started to port it to other platforms. How much this is supported by Apple, I cannot say but probably not much. However, Apple probably don't mind as it makes the language more popular. When Apple develops Swift and its libraries in house they probably try to write it as portable as possible. The same is similar for C#, that its cross platform support really helps advance the popularity of the language.

When it comes to requirements, this is only my speculation. Language engineers are kind of peculiar people, at least about all I have met. It takes a high level of knowledge to develop languages and it turn this makes these persons to become stuck in their academic topics and forget that computer languages are made to be used by average SW developers. Apple hired a bunch of very skilled engineers, some from the Rust team which is obvious. In such organization there is a management to pull these engineers in ears to make the language user friendly and so that it appeals to the masses. You can clearly see it in Swift how they cleaned up the syntax compared to Rust and removed the explicit memory management. The question is how much that would have happened if they language engineers would have their own way.

In Apple there is a management to make "the customers are always right" versus "the language developer is always right". This is highly simplified of course.

On Tuesday, 20 September 2022 at 16:13:30 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: > D's CTFE can make D compilation infinitely slow. Let's put anomalous cases aside... > > We say D compiles much faster than C++. Does anyone have any measurement or a gut feeling about the same program written in idiomatic C++ vs. idiomatic D? I think it may be 30 seconds vs. 5 seconds. I that a fair guess? > > Although a ballpark figure is good enough, precise measurements would be useful as well. > > Thank you, > Ali Side note: Does anyone know how updated this is? https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d

On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 10:47:24 UTC, IGotD- wrote: > Because it is how the D project is managed. If I would have been a project manager, that alone would be enough to avoid the language. There is also significant resistance to evolve the language which is needed. There is a high bar for new features, which is as it should be. The fact that people sometimes don't put the work in to write and evolve a solid proposal is not the maintainers fault. And even well written proposals should be turned down sometimes if they don't have a good power to weight ratio. > Here we have real "customers" that have requirements/desires which D doesn't really have but more a hobbyist approach. The last quarterly foundation meeting had 9 representatives from companies taking part: https://forum.dlang.org/post/lxfildvecircypoabain@forum.dlang.org D is focused on professional users, rather than every syntax proposal that comes up on the forum. > The D maintainers want to remove binary literals which is a good indication how tone deaf the management is and thus the project runs they way it does. What's your evidence the maintainers (plural) want to remove it? Wasn't it just an idea of Walter's? I strongly doubt this will happen. D since roughly 2010 hasn't removed anything that wasn't bug-prone, hard to support or not working properly.

On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 16:22:26 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote: > On 25/09/2022 5:10 AM, Nick Treleaven wrote: >> D since roughly 2010 hasn't removed anything that wasn't bug-prone, hard to support or not working properly. > > Hex strings... OK, and there may be other things. But did people complain as loudly when they were removed?

On 25/09/2022 5:28 AM, Nick Treleaven wrote: > OK, and there may be other things. But did people complain as loudly when they were removed? I regret not speaking up at the time, I'm not quite sure why I didn't. Lets just say, I won't be making that same mistake again ;)

On 9/24/22 08:56, Imperatorn wrote: > Does anyone know how updated this is? > > https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/d The page says updated [2 days ago] and uses the most recent dmd. However, the code can be improved. A random and quick look reveals use of 'class' and 'new' seemingly unnecessarily for D. Ali

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