And big-ups to Walter of course for making it all possible!


"Charles" <cee-lo@green.com> wrote in message news:d1i8b1$22ci$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> I'll be exteremely happy to see D in the top 5 , considering intel and GCC ( and most C++ compilers ) have had decades to develop , and teams of programmers.
>
> And for me the big winner is the development time for D ( much shorter
than
> C and C++ ) , which is really the most expensive part of any software project.
>
> Again big-ups to Dave for doing this, and doing it well :).
>
> Charlie
>
>
> "Dave" <Dave_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d1i780$21ai$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > "Dejan Lekic" <leka@entropy.tmok.com> wrote in message news:d1i4kn$1uab$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > >
> > > If you read all those pages carefully You would see that D is the only language with ALL test programs done 100% - that is the main reason
why
> > > it's first. If you check every single test separately You won't see D
on
> > > first place - more likely somewhere around 10th, what is OK...
> > >
> >
> > If you look at the other 'leaders' like C and C++ you'll see that it is
> the
> > same for them (they aren't tops in every test either). A simple avg. of
> the
> > top 3 by dividing the total score with the # of completed tests has D in 2nd.
> >
> > Right now, GCC is missing 9 tests and DMD is missing one. If you use the 'shootout calculator' to zero-out those missing tests D still comes in a close 3rd.
> >
> > D should do pretty well in all of the 10 missing tests, so the trend
looks
> > to be in DMD's favor for ending up 2nd or maybe 3rd overall with this
set
> of
> > tests and these compilers.
> >
> > Certainly a lot better than 10th...
> >
> > > --
> > > ...........
> > > Dejan Lekic
> > >  http://dejan.lekic.org
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

You're welcome! What Dave's been doing for D is very valuable.


"Charles" <cee-lo@green.com> wrote in message news:d1i8d7$22du$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> And big-ups to Walter of course for making it all possible!
>
>
> "Charles" <cee-lo@green.com> wrote in message news:d1i8b1$22ci$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > I'll be exteremely happy to see D in the top 5 , considering intel and
GCC
> > ( and most C++ compilers ) have had decades to develop , and teams of
> > programmers.
> >
> > And for me the big winner is the development time for D ( much shorter
> than
> > C and C++ ) , which is really the most expensive part of any software project.
> >
> > Again big-ups to Dave for doing this, and doing it well :).
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
> > "Dave" <Dave_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d1i780$21ai$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > > "Dejan Lekic" <leka@entropy.tmok.com> wrote in message news:d1i4kn$1uab$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > > >
> > > > If you read all those pages carefully You would see that D is the
only
> > > > language with ALL test programs done 100% - that is the main reason
> why
> > > > it's first. If you check every single test separately You won't see
D
> on
> > > > first place - more likely somewhere around 10th, what is OK...
> > > >
> > >
> > > If you look at the other 'leaders' like C and C++ you'll see that it
is
> > the
> > > same for them (they aren't tops in every test either). A simple avg.
of
> > the
> > > top 3 by dividing the total score with the # of completed tests has D
in
> > > 2nd.
> > >
> > > Right now, GCC is missing 9 tests and DMD is missing one. If you use
the
> > > 'shootout calculator' to zero-out those missing tests D still comes in
a
> > > close 3rd.
> > >
> > > D should do pretty well in all of the 10 missing tests, so the trend
> looks
> > > to be in DMD's favor for ending up 2nd or maybe 3rd overall with this
> set
> > of
> > > tests and these compilers.
> > >
> > > Certainly a lot better than 10th...
> > >
> > > > --
> > > > ...........
> > > > Dejan Lekic
> > > >  http://dejan.lekic.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Shootout doesn't proof anything anyway so this discussion is with no purpose. Thanks for sending D sources to them.

-- 
...........
Dejan Lekic
  http://dejan.lekic.org

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 06:14:37 +0100, Dejan Lekic wrote:

> Shootout doesn't proof anything anyway so this discussion is with no purpose.

Of course, that's just your opinion. Other people may believe differently.

>Thanks for sending D sources to them.

Yes. Thanks for this effort, David.

To me, including D into the 'shoot out' shows a number of things...

** D is nowhere near the slowest of languages.
** D is capable of many different jobs.
** Somebody is keen enough to do the work and submit it.
** Somebody else is interested enough to add them to the site.
** It does bring D into a little more of the spotlight.
** It brings an opportunity for people to improve the submitted sources,
and thus further showcasing the potential of D.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
20/03/2005 5:13:46 PM

"Derek Parnell" <derek@psych.ward> wrote in message news:czjsgs3ypkqh.16v4o782ha49f.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 06:14:37 +0100, Dejan Lekic wrote:
>
>> Shootout doesn't proof anything anyway so this discussion is with no purpose.
>
> Of course, that's just your opinion. Other people may believe differently.
>
>>Thanks for sending D sources to them.
>
> Yes. Thanks for this effort, David.

You're welcome - like I mentioned, it's been fun!

Funny thing is, I think I've spent more time tuning some C programs than it took to port those tests to D (note to self, array slicing and BufferedStream rule!).

>
> To me, including D into the 'shoot out' shows a number of things...
>
> ** D is nowhere near the slowest of languages.
> ** D is capable of many different jobs.
> ** Somebody is keen enough to do the work and submit it.
> ** Somebody else is interested enough to add them to the site.
> ** It does bring D into a little more of the spotlight.
> ** It brings an opportunity for people to improve the submitted sources,
> and thus further showcasing the potential of D.
>

Those are great points. If you check the site again, D is still holding it's own in the performance dept. after several more submissions for C and others. According to the alioth stats., this has been the busiest month for the  Shootout in 1/2 year. It must have gotten /.'d in October of last year or something <g>

Also, at:

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/great/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all&sort=fullcpu

you can play with the CPU, Memory and Code Line multipliers. If you zero out CPU and Code Lines and set memory to "1", D is doing well there (unlike most of the other GC'd implementations - all of the D tests I sent in use only the GC).

But, more to your points above, if you do likewise with the 'Code Lines' - set it to 1 and zero the rest - D ranks near the top there. Considering that it is competing against functional and scripting languages, and probably has one of the lesser mature libraries, I think this is outstanding! In an effort to make the code reasonably clear, I was probably more 'verbose' than needed as well.

All but one of the tests (pidigits) was done with the base runtime library only. I think Java and Mono C# may be the only ones able to do all of the tests w/o a 3rd party lib. involved (but I haven't made a major study of this).

To me, this is all great, great news! And of course this doesn't even really showcase all of the other important features of D either.

I find myself asking.. How can D /not/ really take off once more people start to try it?

Walter and others who've helped with libraries, bug tracking, etc. have done an outstanding job with D, IMHO.

- Dave

> -- 
> Derek Parnell
> Melbourne, Australia
> 20/03/2005 5:13:46 PM