On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:56:11 +0200, Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote:
> John Reimer wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:53:35 -0800, Kristian Kilpi <kjkilpi@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:01:34 +0200, Tom <tom@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>>> Tom wrote:
>>>>>> Wow, a million bugfixes and a very nice feature... it seems that you didn't saw the sunlight for quite some time. Thank you.
>>>>>  This time of year, there is little sunlight. Nothing to do but work!
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I always forget that you people in the North don't have sunlight during this time of the year. Here, in Argentina, it's getting hotter every minute. God bless air conditioning :D
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom;
>>>
>>> You...! ;)
>>>
>>> Here in Finland is indeed pretty dark most of the day. Well, it should be winter,
>
> How are the seasons defined over there?  Here in Britain, by the standard definition the seasons begin on their respective equinoxes and solstices.
>

I didn't know that, interesting. :)

We don't have the standard definitions here, or at least I'm not heard of them (or anyone I know of). The feather (nature) itself defines the seasons. The translations are quite clear normally. Of course, when I look out of a window now, it looks like autumn. Or if the sun is shining, it looks like spring. I think one can (usually) say that it's "officially" winter when the first snow is rain. Of course, it's not uncommon that the first snow will melt though, or a couple of next ones.

It's summer when snow is melted, lakes too (we have a *lot* of lakes in Finland), and the temperature is pretty high (about 15-25'C). Spring is when snow is melting (when trees have new leaves, it's already summer; some bushes can have leaves in spring though), and autumn when trees turn yellow and red (and finally drop their leaves). Heh, I looked a dictionary for that, and it said "forest glowing with autumn tints" or "glowing autumn forest". No single word for it, huh?



>>> but currently my thermometer shows +10 degrees of Celsius (it should rather be showing -10 degrees). No snow in the ground, and water is raining. In October we had pretty much snow (10-30cm), but this month has been so warm that even lakes in southern Finland are not frozen anymore.
>
> Sounds like an "Indian summer" as we sometimes call it over here. Except that 10°C here in England at this time is by no means exceptional - it would probably need to be at least 16°C to qualify.
>

Hey that's funny, I call a summer of exceptionally high temperatures as an "indian summer". But I did some checking (the net is handy), and it seems that I have been 'misinformed' about that. :) Ok, "a warm period after the cold autumn season has begun", got it.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:27:02 -0800, David Medlock <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:


>
> Cool. My wife's father(and his family) are from Finland.
>
> I think next summer we will get over her fear of flying and go there for a couple of weeks.
>
> Take heart with global warming.  Its happening on Mars as well so it probably a fluctuation in the Sun, not human causes...
>
> -DavidM


Exactly :)

-JJR

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:56:11 -0800, Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> Global warming in its work? :/
>>   If there's such thing as global warming, it's not happening here.  Almost -24 C right now.  Kind of chilly! :)
>
> You mean it wasn't -25°C a year ago?  :-)
>
> Stewart.
>

lol :D

Well, actually it's been exceptionally cold this year.  This cold snap is quite early in the season for us.  Although every winter, we typically get some -30 C weather in Jan or Feb.

-JJR

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:54:42 +0200, John Reimer <terminal.node@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:56:11 -0800, Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Global warming in its work? :/
>>>   If there's such thing as global warming, it's not happening here.  Almost -24 C right now.  Kind of chilly! :)
>>
>> You mean it wasn't -25°C a year ago?  :-)
>>
>> Stewart.
>>
>
> lol :D
>
> Well, actually it's been exceptionally cold this year.  This cold snap is quite early in the season for us.  Although every winter, we typically get some -30 C weather in Jan or Feb.
>
> -JJR

-30'C is pretty cold indeed. :) For instance, bicycling in that temperature is not so nice. (I used to bicycle to school when I was a kid. -20'C was cold enough... ;) )

By the way, if you don't mind asking, where do you live?

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:10:33 -0800, Kristian Kilpi <kjkilpi@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:54:42 +0200, John Reimer <terminal.node@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:56:11 -0800, Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Global warming in its work? :/
>>>>   If there's such thing as global warming, it's not happening here.  Almost -24 C right now.  Kind of chilly! :)
>>>
>>> You mean it wasn't -25°C a year ago?  :-)
>>>
>>> Stewart.
>>>
>>
>> lol :D
>>
>> Well, actually it's been exceptionally cold this year.  This cold snap is quite early in the season for us.  Although every winter, we typically get some -30 C weather in Jan or Feb.
>>
>> -JJR
>
> -30'C is pretty cold indeed. :) For instance, bicycling in that temperature is not so nice. (I used to bicycle to school when I was a kid. -20'C was cold enough... ;) )
>
> By the way, if you don't mind asking, where do you live?


British Columbia, Canada, in a region that we call the Cariboo Interior. I've been to Rovaniemi, Finland (not sure where you are).  It's not near as far north as that.

Actually I run to work (between 5 to 7 km depending on which route I take), all year round.  Tonight I'll be running in this temperature... fun! (I do have a headlamp) :).  It's actually not so bad, if you keep moving.  I can't imagine bicycling to work in that temperature, though .... brrrr... windchill would make it much colder.

-JJR

John Reimer wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:53:35 -0800, Kristian Kilpi <kjkilpi@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:01:34 +0200, Tom <tom@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> Tom wrote:
>>>>> Wow, a million bugfixes and a very nice feature... it seems that you didn't saw the sunlight for quite some time. Thank you.
>>>>  This time of year, there is little sunlight. Nothing to do but work!
>>>
>>> Oh, I always forget that you people in the North don't have sunlight during this time of the year. Here, in Argentina, it's getting hotter every minute. God bless air conditioning :D
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tom;
>>
>> You...! ;)
>>
>> Here in Finland is indeed pretty dark most of the day. Well, it should be winter, but currently my thermometer shows +10 degrees of Celsius (it should rather be showing -10 degrees). No snow in the ground, and water is raining. In October we had pretty much snow (10-30cm), but this month has been so warm that even lakes in southern Finland are not frozen anymore. There is still snow in northern Finland though ( http://www.fmi.fi/en/index.html?neito=lumi ).
>>
>> Global warming in its work? :/
> 
> 
> If there's such thing as global warming, it's not happening here.  Almost -24 C right now.  Kind of chilly! :)
> 
> -JJR

Well that is what global warming will do. With increasing temperatures the world has to correct it and thus it will cause a great decrease in temperature. Of course no one really knows as we have not lived through and documented such events from the past.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:27:02 +0200, David Medlock <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Kristian Kilpi wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:01:34 +0200, Tom <tom@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, a million bugfixes and a very nice feature... it seems that you  didn't saw the sunlight for quite some time. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>  This time of year, there is little sunlight. Nothing to do but work!
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, I always forget that you people in the North don't have sunlight  during this time of the year. Here, in Argentina, it's getting hotter  every minute. God bless air conditioning :D
>>>
>>> -- Tom;
>>   You...! ;)
>>  Here in Finland is indeed pretty dark most of the day. Well, it should be  winter, but currently my thermometer shows +10 degrees of Celsius (it  should rather be showing -10 degrees). No snow in the ground, and water is  raining. In October we had pretty much snow (10-30cm), but this month has  been so warm that even lakes in southern Finland are not frozen anymore.  There is still snow in northern Finland though  ( http://www.fmi.fi/en/index.html?neito=lumi ).
>>  Global warming in its work? :/
>>
>
> Cool. My wife's father(and his family) are from Finland.
>
> I think next summer we will get over her fear of flying and go there for a couple of weeks.
>

:)



> Take heart with global warming.  Its happening on Mars as well so it probably a fluctuation in the Sun, not human causes...
>

I haven't heard that Mars is warming up too. Are measures of the Sun's temperature showing that the Sun is getting hotter (again, that is; the temperature fluctuates)? I think the green house effect cannot be ruled out though. Anything that preserves the nature and lessens pollution is good. Say that I am cynical, but it seems that big corporations are all about making money, usually, no matter of what.

Remember gasoline with lead in it? It was 'proven' to be safe (when money talks... you know what). Of course, when the animals in the zoos start paralysing and dying, it was realized that maybe there were 'side effects' after all. It was even noticed that many animals should have been dead because of the lead poisoning. You can imagine how the lead affected to people too... And now the same companies are selling the leaded gasoline to developing countries... Even if they know what harm it'll cause. Way to go! :(

Grmh, sorry, I don't know where that came from... I shut up now and go to sleep. (It's night already.)

David Medlock skrev:
> 
> Take heart with global warming.  Its happening on Mars as well so it probably a fluctuation in the Sun, not human causes...
> 
> -DavidM

If you do a google search it seems it's not quite that simple:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192

John S. Skogtvedt wrote:

> David Medlock skrev:
> 
>>
>> Take heart with global warming.  Its happening on Mars as well so it probably a fluctuation in the Sun, not human causes...
>>
>> -DavidM
> 
> 
> If you do a google search it seems it's not quite that simple:
> http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192

True, but there is no hard evidence outside computer models that humans are causing any fluctuations in temperature.  Whether it is happening is a separate issue than what is causing it. It would be terribly difficult to prove empirically that human activity is the cause.

Also, consider that the total temperature only rose 1 degree in the last century and hurricane season was(comparatively) a flop this year.

Even if you believe C02 emissions are doing it, remember that 100 years ago the automobile had just entered the market.  Who knows what we will be using in 100 more!

Politicians and anti-capitalists love the theories though.  It lets them pass laws to make you live the way they want you to.  Makes them feel good but its mostly junk science.  The ban on DDT has killed millions of mostly children in Africa, but it was too banned on junk science and only after first world countries had used it successfully.

-DavidM

David Medlock wrote:

> John S. Skogtvedt wrote:
> 
>> David Medlock skrev:
>> 
>>>
>>> Take heart with global warming.  Its happening on Mars as well so it probably a fluctuation in the Sun, not human causes...
>>>
>>> -DavidM
>> 
>> 
>> If you do a google search it seems it's not quite that simple: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192
> 
> True, but there is no hard evidence outside computer models that humans are causing any fluctuations in temperature.  Whether it is happening is a separate issue than what is causing it. It would be terribly difficult to prove empirically that human activity is the cause.
> 
> Also, consider that the total temperature only rose 1 degree in the last century and hurricane season was(comparatively) a flop this year.
> 
> Even if you believe C02 emissions are doing it, remember that 100 years ago the automobile had just entered the market.  Who knows what we will be using in 100 more!
> 
> Politicians and anti-capitalists love the theories though.  It lets them pass laws to make you live the way they want you to.  Makes them feel good but its mostly junk science.  The ban on DDT has killed millions of mostly children in Africa, but it was too banned on junk science and only after first world countries had used it successfully.
> 
> -DavidM

Sorry, calling it junk science is somewhat harsh, and it is still no reason to pollute, as it certainly doesn't cause anything good. Note that if what we are seeing now is actually due to pollution, then it is a bit late if we don't use cars in a 100 years.

I for one thinks it sucks with +10 degrees Celsius and rain in late November, and it seems my son at 3 agrees.

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource & #D: larsivi