On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 06:31:37 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote:
>
> On 24/06/2022 2:48 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>> Yes, we in the D community do do marketing and promotion. It's just that we're up against other communities that are very good at it.
>
> We certainly need to do better, part of that is curbing the negative non-productive talks on the forum.

Just make an off topic forum and move the bitch fests to that. That way there's no censorship and people who want to grumble and posture can do so without dragging down the main forum.

It's not rocket science.

On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 08:44:56 UTC, claptrap wrote:
>
> That "quote" is usually attributed to P T Barnum, (or some variation to Oscar Wilde), so i think it has to be taken in context, if you're running a circus / freak show bad press can sometimes be good in the same way press outrage at an "offensive" film can drive people to see it.
>
> Not so good otherwise though.

Look. C++ has been on the receiving end of constant negativity for...well..decades.

Even from the hard-core within it... who continue to use it.

And yet, the C++ brand remains strong. Very strong. And getting stronger.

On the other hand, if I were a professional psychologist, I would not want to be attracting constant negativity.

But a programming language should be able to deal with, just fine.

If it's not,. it needs to work out why that is.

If you just focus on trying to stop negativty, you will accomplish nothing.

You may as well give up now.

On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 08:48:02 UTC, claptrap wrote:
> On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 06:31:37 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote:
>>
>> On 24/06/2022 2:48 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> Yes, we in the D community do do marketing and promotion. It's just that we're up against other communities that are very good at it.
>>
>> We certainly need to do better, part of that is curbing the negative non-productive talks on the forum.
>
> Just make an off topic forum and move the bitch fests to that. That way there's no censorship and people who want to grumble and posture can do so without dragging down the main forum.
>
> It's not rocket science.

As I said before, as humans, our attention is always directed immediately to the most emotionally salient content.

But most threads, the vast majority in fact, do not contain emotionally salient content. People should try directing their attention to those for a change.

Even the title of this thread contains emotive content.

So I wouldn't be suprised if this thread becomes the very thread it didn't want to become ;-)

Please all, look at all the other threads, and keep the topic of this thread in context.

No negativity at all would indicate possible group think to me.

Errhhh!

That's the last thing D needs.

On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 09:03:48 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
>
> ..
> The only way to resolve this is for the core team to narrow down and announce clearly which application area the language is supposed to cover really well.

I don't think that's enough.

Someone else mentioned that D needs an experimental branch, where the barrier is lowered to what can be put into it.

Since most users come to D from major languages, with vastly more features than D, they will not look nicely on a stagnant language that is missing features that are very important to them.

An expermental branch would breathe new life into the D programming language.

I expect most users of D would end up using that branch actually.

I think core team is too small, and possibly to busy, to be responsive to the needs of its users. That's why an experimental branch, under the management of others, would be useful.

I'd anticipate, it would give D the kick-up-the-ar#@ it surely needs ;-)

Oops. Was I sounding a little negative there.

On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 08:53:23 UTC, forkit wrote:
> On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 08:44:56 UTC, claptrap wrote:
>>
>> That "quote" is usually attributed to P T Barnum, (or some variation to Oscar Wilde), so i think it has to be taken in context, if you're running a circus / freak show bad press can sometimes be good in the same way press outrage at an "offensive" film can drive people to see it.
>>
>> Not so good otherwise though.
>
> Look. C++ has been on the receiving end of constant negativity for...well..decades.
>
> Even from the hard-core within it... who continue to use it.

It has likely still driven people away from C++, i mean you're posting this in a forum of a language that was in large a reaction to the flaes in C++, where most of the users are ex-C++ programmers.

IE. That C++ is still popular does not mean the negative view of it hasn't driven people away. I dont miss it and hope I never have to use it ever again.

On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 08:59:47 UTC, forkit wrote:
> On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 08:48:02 UTC, claptrap wrote:
>> On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 06:31:37 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote:
>>>
>>> On 24/06/2022 2:48 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> Yes, we in the D community do do marketing and promotion. It's just that we're up against other communities that are very good at it.
>>>
>>> We certainly need to do better, part of that is curbing the negative non-productive talks on the forum.
>>
>> Just make an off topic forum and move the bitch fests to that. That way there's no censorship and people who want to grumble and posture can do so without dragging down the main forum.
>>
>> It's not rocket science.
>
> As I said before, as humans, our attention is always directed immediately to the most emotionally salient content.
>
> But most threads, the vast majority in fact, do not contain emotionally salient content. People should try directing their attention to those for a change.

Its not hard to stick to arguing facts. Just avoid things like calling people passive aggressive when they disagree with you.

And I'm not advocating quashing criticism, just that when a thread veers off topic or becomes unproductive move it to to the off topic. Give people a place to vent and talk sh*te. Keep the general forum for people who are being reasonable and sticking on topic.

On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 09:31:02 UTC, claptrap wrote:
>
> It has likely still driven people away from C++, i mean you're posting this in a forum of a language that was in large a reaction to the flaes in C++, where most of the users are ex-C++ programmers.

True. But it's been 22 years now.

>
> IE. That C++ is still popular does not mean the negative view of it hasn't driven people away. I dont miss it and hope I never have to use it ever again.

That's interesting. Cause I feel the opposite. That is, I feel like I'm becoming more interested in C++ again.

I think it's because C++ finally decided to embrace change.

But I'm sure all the 'negativity' played a role, in prompting them to do so.

That, and they were losing programmers to other languages, as you say.

The question is, how is D going to keep programmers (not so much attract them), when these other languages are going full-speed ahead.

An experimental branch might actually help here.

On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 09:41:46 UTC, claptrap wrote:
>
> Its not hard to stick to arguing facts. Just avoid things like calling people passive aggressive when they disagree with you.
>

Lets compromise on that a little.

When people are being passive-aggressive, I call them as being passive-aggresive.

And when their not, I won't.

How does that sound?