I´m starting to research about web frameworks for a future project.
One of the main focus are on performance.

So eventually i hit this site https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/.

And started to compare Vibe.d and Hunt performances (and also another alternatives).
Vide.d in general are faster than Hunt, but i´m curious about Actix (Rust) which are way faster (up to 10x on some benchmarks).

And i´m curious , from a technical point of view, how is possible, since i don´t think there are any intrinsic qualities that Rust have that cannot be achieved by D.

On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 19:23:42 UTC, SrMordred wrote:
> I´m starting to research about web frameworks for a future project.
> One of the main focus are on performance.
>
> So eventually i hit this site https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/.
>
> And started to compare Vibe.d and Hunt performances (and also another alternatives).
> Vide.d in general are faster than Hunt, but i´m curious about Actix (Rust) which are way faster (up to 10x on some benchmarks).
>
> And i´m curious , from a technical point of view, how is possible, since i don´t think there are any intrinsic qualities that Rust have that cannot be achieved by D.

I think in the benchmarks it's mostly bottlenecked by the database, which is why they improved so much in this round because of updates there.

If you look at Plaintext and JSON Serialization (not using DB) you can see that while there is potential for improvement, it's not as drastic. Vibe.D's MongoDB isn't the most optimized one and not really the focus and the Postgres one seems to always be in front but also that probably needs improvements.

I think the ones high in these text only benchmarks are the ones which extremely optimize for such plaintext cases. You can see simply nginx, the high performance load balancer / web server, being there with just 50%

I have spent some time  (days, weeks, maybe months) to look at almost all of this "fast" frameworks. And I can say only one thing. Almost every one of them somehow cheat. So for me this framework does not have any real value.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:25 PM SrMordred via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
> I´m starting to research about web frameworks for a future
> project.
> One of the main focus are on performance.
>
> So eventually i hit this site https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/.
>
> And started to compare Vibe.d and Hunt performances (and also
> another alternatives).
> Vide.d in general are faster than Hunt, but i´m curious about
> Actix (Rust) which are way faster (up to 10x on some benchmarks).
>
> And i´m curious , from a technical point of view, how is possible, since i don´t think there are any intrinsic qualities that Rust have that cannot be achieved by D.
>
>

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:40 PM WebFreak001 via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
> On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 19:23:42 UTC, SrMordred wrote:
> > I´m starting to research about web frameworks for a future
> > project.
> > One of the main focus are on performance.
> >
> > So eventually i hit this site https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/.
> >
> > And started to compare Vibe.d and Hunt performances (and also
> > another alternatives).
> > Vide.d in general are faster than Hunt, but i´m curious about
> > Actix (Rust) which are way faster (up to 10x on some
> > benchmarks).
> >
> > And i´m curious , from a technical point of view, how is possible, since i don´t think there are any intrinsic qualities that Rust have that cannot be achieved by D.
>
> I think in the benchmarks it's mostly bottlenecked by the database, which is why they improved so much in this round because of updates there.
>
> If you look at Plaintext and JSON Serialization (not using DB) you can see that while there is potential for improvement, it's not as drastic. Vibe.D's MongoDB isn't the most optimized one and not really the focus and the Postgres one seems to always be in front but also that probably needs improvements.
>
> I think the ones high in these text only benchmarks are the ones which extremely optimize for such plaintext cases. You can see simply nginx, the high performance load balancer / web server, being there with just 50%

No, the main issue is generaly with the basic http requests. db part is not perfect, but main issue is even in plaintext

On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 19:52:51 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:
> I have spent some time  (days, weeks, maybe months) to look at almost all of this "fast" frameworks. And I can say only one thing. Almost every one of them somehow cheat. So for me this framework does not have any real value.

Could you give a brief overview on these "cheats"?

On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 19:52:51 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:
> I have spent some time  (days, weeks, maybe months) to look at almost all of this "fast" frameworks. And I can say only one thing. Almost every one of them somehow cheat. So for me this framework does not have any real value.

What u mean by cheated?
They tweaked the code to perform better on the benchmarks?

On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 19:23:42 UTC, SrMordred wrote:
> I´m starting to research about web frameworks for a future project.
> One of the main focus are on performance.
>
> So eventually i hit this site https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/.
>
> And started to compare Vibe.d and Hunt performances (and also another alternatives).
> Vide.d in general are faster than Hunt, but i´m curious about Actix (Rust) which are way faster (up to 10x on some benchmarks).
>
> And i´m curious , from a technical point of view, how is possible, since i don´t think there are any intrinsic qualities that Rust have that cannot be achieved by D.

Vibe.d/Hunt use class/GC/exception. both of the framework use runtime interface to implement abstract.

The poor  memory management, and over kill abstract make D slow.

On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 20:15:55 UTC, SrMordred wrote:
> On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 19:52:51 UTC, Daniel Kozak wrote:
>> I have spent some time  (days, weeks, maybe months) to look at almost all of this "fast" frameworks. And I can say only one thing. Almost every one of them somehow cheat. So for me this framework does not have any real value.
>
> What u mean by cheated?
> They tweaked the code to perform better on the benchmarks?

Sorry for using world cheat, what I really mean is tweaks. I mean things like this:

https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/blob/dcbc03714d13aed9c179ed415fbd8fc9629fc6a5/frameworks/Rust/hyper/src/main.rs#L26

https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/blob/dcbc03714d13aed9c179ed415fbd8fc9629fc6a5/frameworks/Rust/hyper/src/main.rs#L52

https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/blob/dcbc03714d13aed9c179ed415fbd8fc9629fc6a5/frameworks/Rust/hyper/src/main.rs#L58

I do not thing, that in normal user code one would use this tweaks, and D vibed code does not use them neither

On Saturday, 21 September 2019 at 19:23:42 UTC, SrMordred wrote:
> I´m starting to research about web frameworks for a future project.
> One of the main focus are on performance.
>
> So eventually i hit this site https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/.
>
> And started to compare Vibe.d and Hunt performances (and also another alternatives).
> Vide.d in general are faster than Hunt, but i´m curious about Actix (Rust) which are way faster (up to 10x on some benchmarks).
>
> And i´m curious , from a technical point of view, how is possible, since i don´t think there are any intrinsic qualities that Rust have that cannot be achieved by D.

You can view latest test result:

https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=test&runid=1580dba0-1ac1-4e3c-96f4-5747295d67a6&hw=ph&test=plaintext

On Monday, 23 September 2019 at 04:10:30 UTC, Newbie2019 wrote:

> Vibe.d/Hunt use class/GC/exception. both of the framework use runtime interface to implement abstract.
>
> The poor  memory management, and over kill abstract make D slow.

It would be interesting to see how Mecca [1] would perform. It’s just missing HTTP support :).

[1] https://github.com/weka-io/mecca

—
/Jacob Carlborg