On 2018-12-22 21:38:42 +0000, Laeeth Isharc said:

> On Saturday, 22 December 2018 at 18:47:40 UTC, Robert M. Münch wrote:
>> On 2018-12-22 12:18:25 +0000, Mike Parker said:
>> 
>>> Thanks to Symmetry Investments, DConf is heading to London! We're still ironing out the details, but I've been sitting on this for weeks and, now that we have a venue, I just can't keep quiet about it any longer.
>> 
>> Hi, you should consider the upcoming Brexit chaos, which is expect to have a high impact on all airlines. Currently I wouldn't bet that all parties involved get things sorted out until May...
> 
> I would be happy to bet they do. The EU and US are already agreed.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46380463

Well, we will see. But it's not the EU and US, but UK and US that agreed after your reference. Since I'm not from the US this information doesn't help a lot. And the significant part of your reference is this: "Theresa May's Brexit agreement with Brussels says that the UK and EU have agreed to negotiate a "comprehensive air transport agreement" for UK-EU flights during the planned transition period but it would not apply if the UK left the EU without a deal. In September the government warned a no-deal Brexit could cause disruption to air travel between the UK and European Union countries."

You might be aware that the "No Deal Scenario" is currently much more likely... but again, everyone is free to do what they want.

-- 
Robert M. Münch
http://www.saphirion.com
smarter | better | faster

On 2018-12-22 21:57:09 +0000, Adam Wilson said:

> On 12/22/18 10:47 AM, Robert M. Münch wrote:
>> On 2018-12-22 12:18:25 +0000, Mike Parker said:
>> 
>>> Thanks to Symmetry Investments, DConf is heading to London! We're still ironing out the details, but I've been sitting on this for weeks and, now that we have a venue, I just can't keep quiet about it any longer.
>> 
>> Hi, you should consider the upcoming Brexit chaos, which is expect to have a high impact on all airlines. Currently I wouldn't bet that all parties involved get things sorted out until May...
>> 
> 
> I very much doubt that Brexit will cause anything approaching choas insofar as airlines are concerned. Currently all international flights are governed by the Montreal Convention which was signed by the individual states of the EU and not the EU itself, and the ICAO which is a UN function. They will remain in force regardless of the UK's status vis-a-vis Brexit.

Since you seem to be a topic matter expert on this, I suggest you get in contact with these guys (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/iata-brexit-flight-disruption/) because they don't seem to know what you know.

> There may be the additional annoyance of EU folks having to pass through passport control depending on the final disposition of Brexit, but that's probably it.

Since UK was not part of the Schengen agreement in the past, passport control was happening already. So, you prediction doesn't hold.

> Chaos is a persuasion word that has zero measurable technical meaning, it's purpose is to allow your mind to fill it's space with your worst nightmares. Whenever I see it in the news I assume that the writer is ideologically opposed to whatever event the writer is describing and lacks any evidence to back up their claims.

Hmm... Following how the major figures are working, and getting things done WRT Brexit preparation and how honestly and clear everyone is informed, I can't imagine a better word. From my live-experience so far, all these indicators (clearly measureable by reading different sources, counting 1 + 1 etc.) are deep in my "chaos classificaiton". Maybe it's time to enter the stage and let the world see how you are going to manage it... a lot of poeple would be very happy if you do.

> Airlines have had years to prepare for Brexit, and humans are generally pretty good at avoiding disasters that they've know about for years.

You assumption is wrong, since no one knows how the Brexit will look like. You might know that "the Deal" still needs to be accepted, which hasn't been the case yet. So, nothing concrete to prepare for.

> My guess is that on Brexit day you won't even notice, save having to pass through an automated passport kiosk.

In case of a "No Deal" scenario, I bet against you ;-)

-- 
Robert M. Münch
http://www.saphirion.com
smarter | better | faster

On Thursday, 27 December 2018 at 17:13:19 UTC, Robert M. Münch wrote:
> On 2018-12-22 21:57:09 +0000, Adam Wilson said:
>
>> Airlines have had years to prepare for Brexit, and humans are generally pretty good at avoiding disasters that they've know about for years.
>
> You assumption is wrong, since no one knows how the Brexit will look like. You might know that "the Deal" still needs to be accepted, which hasn't been the case yet. So, nothing concrete to prepare for.

The "Deal" is hated by all sides which is why Theresa May delayed the vote by a month because she knew she'd lose. She is clinging to the idea that she can get improved terms over the next month but the EU wont budge. Her majority in Parliament is so small that she has to depend on the DUP in northern Ireland for support and they vehemently oppose what the deal sets out for the northern irish border.

Honestly i think most likely is we will crash out with no deal, or a new vote and stay in. Id say the first much more likely than the later. But i cant see the current deal getting through parliament nor can I see the EU changing their position.

On Thursday, 27 December 2018 at 17:00:05 UTC, Robert M. Münch wrote:
> On 2018-12-22 21:38:42 +0000, Laeeth Isharc said:
>
>> On Saturday, 22 December 2018 at 18:47:40 UTC, Robert M. Münch wrote:
>>> On 2018-12-22 12:18:25 +0000, Mike Parker said:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks to Symmetry Investments, DConf is heading to London! We're still ironing out the details, but I've been sitting on this for weeks and, now that we have a venue, I just can't keep quiet about it any longer.
>>> 
>>> Hi, you should consider the upcoming Brexit chaos, which is expect to have a high impact on all airlines. Currently I wouldn't bet that all parties involved get things sorted out until May...
>> 
>> I would be happy to bet they do. The EU and US are already agreed.
>> 
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46380463
>
> Well, we will see. But it's not the EU and US, but UK and US that agreed after your reference. Since I'm not from the US this information doesn't help a lot. And the significant part of your reference is this: "Theresa May's Brexit agreement with Brussels says that the UK and EU have agreed to negotiate a "comprehensive air transport agreement" for UK-EU flights during the planned transition period but it would not apply if the UK left the EU without a deal. In September the government warned a no-deal Brexit could cause disruption to air travel between the UK and European Union countries."
>
> You might be aware that the "No Deal Scenario" is currently much more likely... but again, everyone is free to do what they want.

In the event of no-deal, flights will continue as before except UK operators flying _within_ Europe on domestic or intra-EU flights will need to get a license.  UK operators can continue to fly to Europe, and we already said the European operators can fly here.  This is a relatively recent official confirmation of what was always fairly obvious - a negotiating position is not quite the same thing as the position in actuality.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/319768/updated-european-commission-reiterates-flights-will-go-ahead-post-brexit

You can read the technical guidance if you wish.  Naturally it comes with the spin you would expect.

And since flights to and from the EU will continue to operate, I doubt very much that flights between Britain and anywhere else will cease to operate.

Britain has a current account deficit with every European nation bar Ireland and I think Malta, meaning we import more than we export.  The wilder scenarios painted assume that one of the two parties would deliberately sabotage their own economy.  I don't think so.

I had lunch with a lawyer who advised Cameron and Osborne in their negotiations with the EU.  He has written five books on Brexit, approaching it from a technical rather than political perspective.  He pioneered the suggestion of enhanced equivalence which will likely be the roadmap for financial services.  He says Brexit consists of a multitude of small problems which will have to be overcome by the people closest to them.  But a no-deal Brexit would be fine and quite quickly rather positive.

All of this stuff "if there is a no-deal Brexit, Theresa May _could_ run out of insulin" - that word could is like nasal demons in UB with C.  It's a funny use of the word could - the lawyer called the insulin suggestion an insult to the intelligence.  And my sister in law is a partner in a pharmaceutical regulatory firm here in Germany where I write from, and she agrees the suggestion is nonsense.

There's a lot of such stuff about, generated for partisan reasons.  The track record of such suggestions is pretty dire - both Mervyn King, former Governor of the Bank of England,and Paul Krugman, a former trade economist, haha, suggested that the Bank was damaging its reputation by making such political arguments.

So it's best to go to the primary sources and technical documentation.  There are more entertaining ways to scare oneself if that's what one wants.

But flights will be running as good or bad as they ever do,as best I can tell.

On Saturday, 22 December 2018 at 13:46:39 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>
> Given that this conference format is dying off, is there any explanation for why the D team wants to continue this antiquated ritual?

Why are you bringing this again? Are you going to talk the same stuff whenever someone mentions some conference here?? :) While I admire your persistence I fail to understand why you simply don't ignore stuff you do not like. If you do not like conferences fine - do not go there, and let us who do like them and think they are useful have some fun!

On Friday, 28 December 2018 at 07:08:19 UTC, Dejan Lekic wrote:
> While I admire your persistence I fail to understand why you simply don't ignore stuff you do not like. If you do not like conferences fine - do not go there, and let us who do like them and think they are useful have some fun!

Some of us want to improve things for everyone else, too.

Isn't that what open source is all about? We do it initially because it works for us, but then share it because it helps the community as well.

If you actually tried these improvements, you'd probably like them. Even our conservative managers at the day job have responded positively to similar changes we made over the last year.

We're a predominately remote organization and used to have org-wide in-person meetings that worked very much like dconf does now - someone would be designated to rattle off about a powerpoint while everyone else passively watches.

For last year's meeting, my manager (the team I'm on has done our meetings differently for a while) convinced the CEO to try a more interactive approach for the org-wide meeting too. We did that speaker intro, small random group work, whole group conclusion pattern.

It was a success. Everyone was more engaged, we had more cross-team collaboration (which has continued throughout the year as people are more comfortable with each other!), and people have shown better retention of the material. Staff surveys about subjective feelings about this meeting were up, too, people said it is more enjoyable.

And this shouldn't be a surprise! We find in education that using a variety of teaching strategies and getting students hands-on and working together almost always leads to better outcomes.


Of course, most people STILL say their favorite part was the after-hours chats... but I say that's because the in-hours stuff was still basically work :P

But I'm telling you, DConf can learn from this stuff. Joakim is doing the community a service by trying to get you all to try some changes. Even baby step compromises can yield results at low risk.

On Friday, 28 December 2018 at 16:31:01 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> For last year's meeting, my manager (the team I'm on has done our meetings differently for a while) convinced the CEO to try a more interactive approach for the org-wide meeting too. We did that speaker intro, small random group work, whole group conclusion pattern.
>
> It was a success. Everyone was more engaged, we had more cross-team collaboration (which has continued throughout the year as people are more comfortable with each other!), and people have shown better retention of the material. Staff surveys about subjective feelings about this meeting were up, too, people said it is more enjoyable.

Nice! I have seen this work as well and it is amazing to see it when it happens. Great that your team could be that catalyst.

In my experience it works great in trainings and workshops, but it might as well be very enjoyable and productive on dconf. Although I would keep at least 60% talks.

On 12/28/18 11:31 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

> But I'm telling you, DConf can learn from this stuff. Joakim is doing the community a service by trying to get you all to try some changes. Even baby step compromises can yield results at low risk.

Note that the proposals always ask for format (talk, panel, contest, interpretive dance).

So you can always propose a presentation that takes on a format that you think will be more useful.

I think the biggest problem with Joakim's post was simply that it was phrased like `why do you want to have such a stupid ritual, when your money can be better spent doing something else?` Things went downhill from there.

-Steve

On Friday, 28 December 2018 at 16:31:01 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> On Friday, 28 December 2018 at 07:08:19 UTC, Dejan Lekic wrote:
>> While I admire your persistence I fail to understand why you simply don't ignore stuff you do not like. If you do not like conferences fine - do not go there, and let us who do like them and think they are useful have some fun!
>
> Some of us want to improve things for everyone else, too.
>
> Isn't that what open source is all about? We do it initially because it works for us, but then share it because it helps the community as well.
>
> If you actually tried these improvements, you'd probably like them. Even our conservative managers at the day job have responded positively to similar changes we made over the last year.

Etc...

Just to make it clear - I do not say I am against some other formats, web conferences, digital meetups, or whatever. I am just saying that there are people who still prefer DConf as it is (was). If a group of D enthusiasts want to try something else, by all means do it! But do not try to be a partybreaker like Joakim and whenever someone mentions DConf he starts talking crap...

I see absolutely NO problem at all if there is a regular DConf, and some other forms of communication that Joakim, or you, prefer!

This said - can't wait to attend the DConf in the UK!

On Saturday, 22 December 2018 at 13:33:29 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> Brilliant, DConf comes to the UK, I can get to it…
>
> except…
>
> it's on at the exact same time as DevoxxUK 2019 which is at the Business Design Centre. :-(

Programming languages are unimportant anyway.