On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 05:10:29 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote:
> On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 04:29:44 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote:
>>
>> Rust has pretty much gone on record as deliberately using social engineering to squelch all disagreement by way of drumming out any and all dissenters:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIageYT0Vgg
>>
>
> a "friend of the tree"..  timepoint = 13:15
>
> seems like Rust community are incorporating psychological manipulation techniques..similar to what scientology does.

btw. Mozilla has long had an unusual interest in people specifically from the Oregon State University.

https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/browser-built-with-love-sweat-volunteers/

Emily Dunham (the one in that youtube video, is also a graduate of that university - hired by Mozilla on 2015).

Oregon is also considered to be "The First Scientology City".

now I don't want to be too much of conspiracist..but...

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 03:15:44 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
> I don't see a negative trend. It's always been negative around here, and I've never understood why. It's the best language I've used by a significant margin. D is the inverse of the Lisp community, which believes the Common Lisp Hyperspec was delivered on stone tablets.

Funny. Maybe it is a self-organising engineering culture that has evolved. We have a mixture of critical people here and the occasional nutcase. You see that in most popular FOSS projects, but D is pretty extreme.

The harmful part of all theses messages, apart from disgusting the more sensitive among us, is that I find people (say at this FOSDEM - btw great talk Kai) telling me that D is immature. These people read these threads. So they don't even try D. Being positive helps recruit people into trying things out on their own. I would not call it social engineering per se, but ultimately you want people to come in the door and try stuff. Only then will merit pay off.

I start to wonder if we just shut off and remove the forum history would actually improve the takeup of D. I wonder if project leaders would stop posting it would actually improve the takeup of D. Maybe we should just try that for a year. Someone I knew would (in the days of paper) move his inbox into the trash. He would say: if it is really important it will come back. A clean slate makes the day fresh.

My proposal: remove the forum and history completely and for a year only produce blogs. We still have github, bugzilla, DIPs etc. Plenty ways to express yourself and contribute. Project leaders stop posting so they can focus on the technical side of things.

> I've even raised the issue myself. Everyone complains about Walter and Andrei and the lack of tools and so on, but I see a lot of progress. I don't really care about who isn't using D or why. For many years I saw the same thing in the Linux community yet year after year I had a computer that just worked.

Yes. Remember the days everyone was using Windows and just a few of us were using Linux. I do not think D will be *that* successful, but it has enough momentum to keep going. It is a solid investment in my book.

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 05:34:01 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote:
>
> btw. Mozilla has long had an unusual interest in people specifically from the Oregon State University.
>
> https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/browser-built-with-love-sweat-volunteers/
>
> Emily Dunham (the one in that youtube video, is also a graduate of that university - hired by Mozilla on 2015).
>
> Oregon is also considered to be "The First Scientology City".
>
> now I don't want to be too much of conspiracist..but...

It was also interesting to listen to Emily as she effectively endorsed, praised, and encouraged, the Rust communities 'moderation attack squad' (timepoint: 9:34), and pointing out how seriously 'the moderators team' need to take their duties (timepoint: 8:55).

Attack squads are in integral component within scientology too - although the actions of these squads are justified based on the so called 'Fair Game Policy' (instead of 'Code of Conduct'):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)

... and so...the plot thickens..

On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 23:54:29 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote:
> Sorry if I'm hurting someone's sentiment, but is it just me who is seeing so much negative trend in the D forum about D itself?

Well, programmers are engineers, and engineers tend to focus on things that need improvement. That has the downside that the attitude might stealthily get negative. That is likely to be the base reason.

Too positive an attitude in a wrong woy would stall the development. That does not mean negativity is desirable, just that it's sometimes hard to say what's constructive criticism and what's complaining.

> I don't remember seeing so much negative about Rust on rust forum and so on.

I don't feel the general attitude to be negative, I think many people are very positive here: Andrei, Ali and H.S.Teoh are excellent examples. And those who sound negative at times are being constructive.

It's true there are rant posts that fail to keep a good attitude, but I think they are usually from "outside" people. Regular D users are almost always reasonably nice.

On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 23:54:29 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote:
> Sorry if I'm hurting someone's sentiment, but is it just me who is seeing so much negative trend in the D forum about D itself? I don't remember seeing so much negative about Rust on rust forum and so on. Do you think it will help in reminding people not to post any negative things? It shouldn't become strict moderation, but at the same time, I really don't like seeing so much negative trend. I would even go to the extent and suggest to email Walter/Andrei in person (even if they don't agree) to vent your frustration with D, but please don't post it on the forum.

"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses."

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:32:29 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote:
> It is a human right..to complain ;-)

Not to be that guy, but technically you have no rights in an online community.

You have privileges.

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 07:47:39 UTC, JN wrote:
> "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses."

Wasn't that from Bjarne Stroustrup?

On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 23:54:29 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote:
> Sorry if I'm hurting someone's sentiment, but is it just me who is seeing so much negative trend in the D forum about D itself?

That's because people love D so much they want it to become better.

On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 23:54:29 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote:
> Sorry if I'm hurting someone's sentiment, but is it just me who is seeing so much negative trend in the D forum about D itself? I don't remember seeing so much negative about Rust on rust forum and so on. Do you think it will help in reminding people not to post any negative things? It shouldn't become strict moderation, but at the same time, I really don't like seeing so much negative trend. I would even go to the extent and suggest to email Walter/Andrei in person (even if they don't agree) to vent your frustration with D, but please don't post it on the forum.

I think the thing is that the main D newsgroup has always felt like a bunch of people arguing over how to make D better, and that's kind of what it's always been, new ideas and directions are discussed in here by the main devs. Do Go and Rust have similar user groups, or do they do all that kind of stuff behind closed doors and then dictate from the top of a tower?

Arguing, friction, grumbling, it's all a symptom of Ds open volunteer based development process IMO.

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 08:08:28 UTC, bauss wrote:
> On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:32:29 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote:
>> It is a human right..to complain ;-)
>
> Not to be that guy, but technically you have no rights in an online community.
>
> You have privileges.

You may have the privilege of participating in an online community, sure.

But expressing something 'negative' would fall under the right to freedom of thought, opinion, an expression (Article 19 of Universal Declaration of Human Rights).

It takes a very special kind of community to recognise that the community does not come at the expense of the rights of the individual. It also takes a very special kind of person to know that the individual does not come at the expense of the rights of the community.

Many communities, and individuals, continue to struggle with this philosophy - preferring one over the other. That is the real cause of conflict, not the expression of negativity.

Personally, I found that youtube video (Life is better with Rust's community automation - YouTube) rather disturbing.