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Feedback from the Gripes and Wishes Campaign
May 18, 2023
Mike Parker
May 18, 2023
FeepingCreature
May 18, 2023
Anonymouse
May 18, 2023
GrimMaple
May 18, 2023
Mike Parker
May 18, 2023
zjh
May 18, 2023
zjh
May 18, 2023
zjh
May 18, 2023
user456
May 20, 2023
Mike Parker
May 18, 2023
Theo
May 19, 2023
bachmeier
May 19, 2023
Theo
May 19, 2023
Theo
May 19, 2023
Ali Çehreli
May 19, 2023
Theo
May 19, 2023
GrimMaple
May 19, 2023
ryuukk_
May 19, 2023
IGotD-
May 19, 2023
GrimMaple
May 24, 2023
deadalnix
May 19, 2023
H. S. Teoh
May 20, 2023
Theo
May 20, 2023
zjh
May 20, 2023
IGotD-
May 25, 2023
Commander Zot
May 26, 2023
FeepingCreature
May 26, 2023
Max Samukha
May 26, 2023
Basile B.
May 30, 2023
Commander Zot
May 31, 2023
FeepingCreature
May 26, 2023
ryuukk_
May 26, 2023
ryuukk_
May 20, 2023
Walter Bright
May 21, 2023
Theo
May 22, 2023
FeepingCreature
May 22, 2023
Theo
May 27, 2023
Walter Bright
May 20, 2023
Walter Bright
May 21, 2023
IGotD-
May 27, 2023
Walter Bright
May 27, 2023
Timon Gehr
May 27, 2023
Walter Bright
May 28, 2023
Walter Bright
May 28, 2023
Sebastiaan Koppe
May 28, 2023
max haughton
May 28, 2023
IGotD-
May 29, 2023
Walter Bright
May 28, 2023
Basile B.
May 29, 2023
Walter Bright
May 29, 2023
Walter Bright
May 29, 2023
Stefan Koch
May 19, 2023
Walter Bright
May 19, 2023
monkyyy
May 28, 2023
Walter Bright
May 28, 2023
Paolo Invernizzi
May 29, 2023
Walter Bright
May 29, 2023
Dukc
May 29, 2023
Paul Backus
May 29, 2023
Paul Backus
May 29, 2023
H. S. Teoh
May 29, 2023
IGotD-
May 30, 2023
deadalnix
May 31, 2023
ExceptThis
Jun 20, 2023
A moo person
Jun 20, 2023
Sergey
May 18, 2023

I've finally compiled all of the feedback from the Gripes and Wishes campaign into a single document for your perusal. Thanks to everyone who sent something to me. If you did send feedback and don't see it here, please let me know.

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document/blob/main/gripes-wishes-feedback.md

A few notes:

  • I've excluded Bugzilla issues that have since been closed
  • I've tried to include examples and suggestions that were provided along with the points, but I have cut out some bits that were irrelevant or extraneous.
  • I've not included compliments. I wanted to focus only on things we need to fix/change. But the compliments were received and much appreciated.
  • There were three pieces that I decided not to breakdown into actionable items and included in longform instead. Those are at the bottom of the document.
  • I'll probably update this list after our planning meeting tomorrow.

So, the next steps related to this. Generally, we need to:

  • establish some high-level goals
  • go through this list to see what fits with those goals, what doesn't fit now but could be done later, and what is unlikely to ever fit any goals
  • discuss additional ideas from our own wish lists (and I'll update the document with those once I have them all)
  • prioritize everything we've decided fits our current goals
  • publish categorized task lists
  • work out who among us is responsible for what
  • get things done

That last one is the hard part. I'll have more to say about it when the time comes.

May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 12:30:43 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>

I've finally compiled all of the feedback from the Gripes and Wishes campaign into a single document for your perusal. Thanks to everyone who sent something to me. If you did send feedback and don't see it here, please let me know.

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document/blob/main/gripes-wishes-feedback.md

A few notes:

  • I've excluded Bugzilla issues that have since been closed
  • I've tried to include examples and suggestions that were provided along with the points, but I have cut out some bits that were irrelevant or extraneous.
  • I've not included compliments. I wanted to focus only on things we need to fix/change. But the compliments were received and much appreciated.
  • There were three pieces that I decided not to breakdown into actionable items and included in longform instead. Those are at the bottom of the document.
  • I'll probably update this list after our planning meeting tomorrow.

So, the next steps related to this. Generally, we need to:

  • establish some high-level goals
  • go through this list to see what fits with those goals, what doesn't fit now but could be done later, and what is unlikely to ever fit any goals
  • discuss additional ideas from our own wish lists (and I'll update the document with those once I have them all)
  • prioritize everything we've decided fits our current goals
  • publish categorized task lists
  • work out who among us is responsible for what
  • get things done

That last one is the hard part. I'll have more to say about it when the time comes.

"Ah yes, this is one of mine, this is one of mine, this is one of mine where I made a typo... God damn it."

Big list! What's interesting to me is the entries that I would straight up disagree with, like removing contracts. Brings to mind the common claim that D is too big, it has too many features that nobody use, we could totally remove these ten features without anybody complaining ... followed by a list that is different for everyone. :)

May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 12:30:43 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>

[...]

Thanks for compiling this!

May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 12:30:43 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>

I've finally compiled all of the feedback from the Gripes and Wishes campaign into a single document for your perusal. Thanks to everyone who sent something to me. If you did send feedback and don't see it here, please let me know.

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document/blob/main/gripes-wishes-feedback.md

A few notes:

  • I've excluded Bugzilla issues that have since been closed
  • I've tried to include examples and suggestions that were provided along with the points, but I have cut out some bits that were irrelevant or extraneous.
  • I've not included compliments. I wanted to focus only on things we need to fix/change. But the compliments were received and much appreciated.
  • There were three pieces that I decided not to breakdown into actionable items and included in longform instead. Those are at the bottom of the document.
  • I'll probably update this list after our planning meeting tomorrow.

So, the next steps related to this. Generally, we need to:

  • establish some high-level goals
  • go through this list to see what fits with those goals, what doesn't fit now but could be done later, and what is unlikely to ever fit any goals
  • discuss additional ideas from our own wish lists (and I'll update the document with those once I have them all)
  • prioritize everything we've decided fits our current goals
  • publish categorized task lists
  • work out who among us is responsible for what
  • get things done

That last one is the hard part. I'll have more to say about it when the time comes.

It's good to see that this thing from about half a year ago finally seen some traction. Thank you for your work. But then again, reading other threads (such as this one https://forum.dlang.org/thread/lktxmzdcmaagtrswpily@forum.dlang.org) leaves me with about 0 hope that any of this is going to be taken into account. Was this brought up anywhere internally? Was there any discussion? What are the results of the discussion?

Having a list is good, but I'm afraid this will die as a list.

May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 12:30:43 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>

I've finally compiled all of the feedback from the Gripes and Wishes campaign into a single document for your perusal.

This is more important than ivy, and priority weights list need to be evaluated.

May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 14:38:16 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

This is more important than ivy, and priority weights list need to be evaluated.

This feels a bit like engineering project management.

May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 14:07:09 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

It's good to see that this thing from about half a year ago finally seen some traction. Thank you for your work. But then again, reading other threads (such as this one https://forum.dlang.org/thread/lktxmzdcmaagtrswpily@forum.dlang.org) leaves me with about 0 hope that any of this is going to be taken into account. Was this brought up anywhere internally? Was there any discussion? What are the results of the discussion?

Having a list is good, but I'm afraid this will die as a list.

We'll start discussing it tomorrow, and in several weekly planning meetings going forward. The steps I outlined at the bottom of the post are all about that.

May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 14:40:12 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

This feels a bit like engineering project management.

I think the main problem is still the lack of user participation and tutorials. There are already video tutorials, but I think the author of D should write some more tutorials. For example, where do you want to improve? The author of D should explain how to modify them and pay attention to certain areas. The D community needs people, not doing everything personally.
D Author can write a series of tutorials targeting multiple obvious potential improvement points, explaining how to improve them in D, rather than just welcoming them modifying, because they don't know how to improve them at all.

May 19, 2023
> I wish Dub would create import libraries for Windows.

This should be the case.

If you need it in a scenario where it doesn't for DLL's, please file a bug report as it is a bug. It just requires tuning as to when to copy them (the linker will generate them if it sees exports).

Static libraries and object files don't have them, executables don't have a use case for them currently.



> I believe dub could really get a target type which builds all static libraries dependencies and a main static library.

I'm waiting on Martin to get back to us about his work experimenting with shared library support in dub before working on a new target type that will allow this to happen.

https://github.com/dlang/dub/issues/2633
May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 12:30:43 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>

I've finally compiled all of the feedback from the Gripes and Wishes campaign into a single document for your perusal. Thanks to everyone who sent something to me. If you did send feedback and don't see it here, please let me know.

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document/blob/main/gripes-wishes-feedback.md

A few notes:

  • I've excluded Bugzilla issues that have since been closed
  • I've tried to include examples and suggestions that were provided along with the points, but I have cut out some bits that were irrelevant or extraneous.
  • I've not included compliments. I wanted to focus only on things we need to fix/change. But the compliments were received and much appreciated.
  • There were three pieces that I decided not to breakdown into actionable items and included in longform instead. Those are at the bottom of the document.
  • I'll probably update this list after our planning meeting tomorrow.

I have detected an incomplete sentence:

"According to Walter in the January 2023 Quartely Meeting, sum types won't be the focus in D anytime soon, in favor of robustness. That's"

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