On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 10:59:19 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
> On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 10:49:30 UTC, Chris wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> The question remains, if one issue and a dollar amount suffices to set up a bounty system with Flipcause, why did you decide to wait instead of going public immediately to tell the general user community to contribute issues and dollars in order to get things going asap, why wait until the company comes back to you, if apparently it doesn't depend on the company?
>
> Because the company has a list of issues. So I had the choice of making the announcement with no issues seeded and ready to go, or making it with a number of issues seeded and ready to go. I opted for the latter.

Er, what about posting a request for bounties here on the forum and as soon as you get the first one you go live with Flipcause? Maybe you would have gotten loads of issues or maybe not in which case you would still have the company's issues as a fallback. That's my take.

On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 11:06:05 UTC, jmh530 wrote:
> On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 10:49:30 UTC, Chris wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>
> It's not just "mistakes were made." Mike Parker is saying, "mistakes were made, but we are working on fixing them." I think many people would find it discouraging if you fault them for that.

std.v2? March 28:

https://forum.dlang.org/post/q7j3s0$15n7$1@digitalmars.com

On 24/07/2019 11:05 PM, Chris wrote:
> On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 10:49:24 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 10:34:57 UTC, Chris wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And knowing all this, it never occurred to anyone to set up a sound and transparent payment system? It wasn't until a company approached you that you figured out that it might be a good idea?
>>
>> I don't know what you're going on about. The D Foundation has been paying people through multiple methods for a while now, using whatever transfer system charges the smallest amount of fees in the recipient's country. We don't need a bounty system to pay people. The bounty system is just to track how much money is associated with a specific issue.
>>
>> Again, no one was taking advantage of the old system. Click on that bounty source link earlier in the thread and see how old many of those issues are. When fundraising options first fell on my plate, I didn't consider a new bounty system a priority because the old one never met its potential and there was never a clamour from the community for a new one. But if a company is willing to throw money at bugzilla issues, of course we're going to facilitate it. And rather than limit it to just that company, we're setting up a new system to let everyone participate.
>>
>> If you think I screwed up by not starting a bounty system sooner, that's fine. But at least get your criticism on target.
> 
> First, I don't think you "screwed up" personally. It's a structural issue within the DLF. Someone sets up a bounty system that is not used, because people don't really know about it.

It was well known at the time.

> I couldn't find a prominent link to it on dlang.org. Is there one? If yes, my bad that I didn't spot it.

You won't. It never graduated the initial advertisement stage because nobody was putting money into it (in amounts that mattered).

There is a lot more money flowing around now (partly because of Symmetry) then there was when bountysource was last tried.

On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 11:15:10 UTC, Chris wrote:
> [snip]
>
> std.v2? March 28:
>
> https://forum.dlang.org/post/q7j3s0$15n7$1@digitalmars.com

It seemed like he was merely floating the idea of an std.v2. It's not like it was a blog post announcing that work would start on it or actively sought suggestions for a design spec.

Regardless, the thread is about a specific issue with how people get paid to contribute to D. The person who is involved with the payments has said on one specific issue, he recognizes some mistakes, and is working to fix improve the situation. And your response is, "yeah, but that's what you always say, they said we would get a new standard library on March 28 and that's four months and I've been counting!" I mean, sometimes you have to give people the benefit of the doubt that they are working in the interest of the community the best they can. They have time constraints, other stuff to work on, family obligations, and any number of other things going on.

On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 11:31:33 UTC, rikki cattermole wrote:

>> 
>> First, I don't think you "screwed up" personally. It's a structural issue within the DLF. Someone sets up a bounty system that is not used, because people don't really know about it.
>
> It was well known at the time.

>
>> I couldn't find a prominent link to it on dlang.org. Is there one? If yes, my bad that I didn't spot it.
>
> You won't. It never graduated the initial advertisement stage because nobody was putting money into it (in amounts that mattered).

So what happened? Why wasn't there a link on the homepage that said "Set & Get Bounties", and why wasn't it brought to the public's attention regularly? It's not rocket science, it's marketing basics.

> There is a lot more money flowing around now (partly because of Symmetry) then there was when bountysource was last tried.

So let's use it!

On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 11:36:40 UTC, Chris wrote:

> So what happened? Why wasn't there a link on the homepage that said "Set & Get Bounties", and why wasn't it brought to the public's attention regularly? It's not rocket science, it's marketing basics.

I imagine because sometimes people are more interested in complaining and telling others what they ought to do than finding constructive ways to move the world in the direction in which they think it should go.

If you see something missing it's not that difficult to fix it yourself.  dlang.org is on github, after all.

Human nature is a funny thing.

On 24/07/2019 11:36 PM, Chris wrote:
>> There is a lot more money flowing around now (partly because of Symmetry) then there was when bountysource was last tried.
> 
> So let's use it!

By the sounds of things, that is what Mike is trying to get setup...

Stuff like this doesn't happen over night and takes effort to make possible long term.

On Tuesday, 23 July 2019 at 21:22:38 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
> This is a bold, very bold post.
>
> I think there's a problem in the economic system of the D lang foundation.
> And because of this problem I'll stop contributing to the compiler and the standard library.
>
> Basically what has opened my eyes is this situation: like often I have money problems. Since six months I have fixed something like 50 dmd bugs. So a natural reflex was to contact the D foundation, to ask for a little "bounty".
>
> The reply from the foundation was something like : "we cant do that because now we are a legal entity and also this would make other contributors jealous".
> Ok so I propose a serious project... I even reserve **three weeks** for it... No replies nothing.
>
> So you've lost me. If someone in needs cant even get 50 bucks from the foundation, in retribution for 50 bug fixes, there's a serious problem.
>
> Goodbye.
>
> Basile B.


I emailed you directly.


Laeeth.

On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 11:44:56 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote:
> On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 11:36:40 UTC, Chris wrote:
>
>> So what happened? Why wasn't there a link on the homepage that said "Set & Get Bounties", and why wasn't it brought to the public's attention regularly? It's not rocket science, it's marketing basics.
>
> I imagine because sometimes people are more interested in complaining and telling others what they ought to do than finding constructive ways to move the world in the direction in which they think it should go.
>
> If you see something missing it's not that difficult to fix it yourself.  dlang.org is on github, after all.
>
> Human nature is a funny thing.

It's really on the person that created that funding page. Not sure why you are trying to direct it a someone else for stating the obvious. I didn't even know that page existed til now. Creating a way to donate and not advertising it is just bad management. I can say it is bad management, this isn't "complaining" this is valid criticism of how the donation page was marketed. Clearly there is something wrong when no one really even knew it existed. Stop trying to put things on people just because something is open source. This is something clearly someone at the D foundation should have done. I don't know how you can even try to argue otherwise.

On Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 10:06:01 UTC, ketmar wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>
>> On 7/24/2019 2:33 AM, ketmar wrote:
>>> that is called "asking a permission". if there is anybody to whom somebody else has to explain how and why his money spent, that is called "asking a permission to spend money".
>>
>> The Foundation uses a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) for advice and for handling the accounting. We follow the CPA's advice to ensure we are following the law and doing things by the book.
>
> and i am not trying to say that you're doing something wrong, or vile, or something like that. i am only trying to say that is a legal entity cannot even use its own money without Big Brother approval, then there is little sense in being "legal" (whatever that means) at all.

So you are suggesting they commit fraud and become criminals? You don't have laws in your country? Being "legal" means following the law. I haven't heard this "big brother" conspiracy popsicles in a long time.