On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 16:26:43 UTC, Marcone wrote:
> I've been a programmer for 15 years. I program in several programming languages, only for Windows desktop with graphical interface. I have been programming in D for only 1 year and for me D is the best programming language. Why not invest more in Dlang? Better integration of D with Qt5 and Qt6 and the web would make Dlang rise in popularity.

https://lmeyerov.github.io/projects/socioplt/papers/oopsla2013.pdf

"We found that existing code, existing expertise, and open source libraries are
the dominant drivers of adoption."

D community typically focus on the language (and what goes into Phobos) rather than the indispensable 3rd-party libraries.

On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 22:51:22 UTC, sighoya wrote:

> GTK 4 support?

Gtk4 just came out. Give it time. No Linux distribution or platform that I know of has support for gtk4 yet. So it's not going to be useful anytime soon. Give it time.

>
>> We have BeamU and DlangUI. They just don't have enough manpower to polish them up faster.
>
> Interesting, thanks. Cross-platform and pure D-Code in beamUI seems promising...
> But I've never really heard about people talking about here, why?

I have no idea. Maybe not enough people in the community do stuff related to that. May be. The community is not exactly managed BTW.

Starting 2021, I'm seeing even never (smaller) languages communities doing survey to factor those (or even few ideas) into language direction. We're doing none of those.

We've got a great language though.

>
>> If you're on Windows, Visual Studio with Visual-d should be enough. There's also the popular VS code.
>
> Yes, syntax checking and code completion is already quite good (even in eclipse), however we have, afaict, no semantic checking yet.
> We would either need to call DMD/LDC/GDC as compiler service (don't know to which extent this is possible, or we need a new compiler for the IDE).
> But heck, writing a new compiler incurs a lot of work and time to get in sync with semantic D.

D has many new features. Including UFCS and our kind of metaprogramming that makes such smart IDE features not an easy thing to do for D.

It'll either take a while for DMD as a library (for tooling) to catch on OR a dedicated team of people to work on this full-tme.

As to when that'll happen, I'm not sure. Those in charge don't even use such fancy tools themselves. So it's it quite unlikely to come from them.

On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 14:02:28 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:
> On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 16:26:43 UTC, Marcone wrote:
>> I've been a programmer for 15 years. I program in several programming languages, only for Windows desktop with graphical interface. I have been programming in D for only 1 year and for me D is the best programming language. Why not invest more in Dlang? Better integration of D with Qt5 and Qt6 and the web would make Dlang rise in popularity.
>
> https://lmeyerov.github.io/projects/socioplt/papers/oopsla2013.pdf
>
> "We found that existing code, existing expertise, and open source libraries are
> the dominant drivers of adoption."

My gut has always told me this. Glad it's backed by research.

>
> D community typically focus on the language (and what goes into Phobos) rather than the indispensable 3rd-party libraries.

On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 16:26:43 UTC, Marcone wrote:


D's problems include:

1. The community is not well organized to form a resultant force. For example, list the most important things to do. then do it.

2. There is no benefit to GC in D. Better get rid of it.for example in the stdlib. or work on betterC. Structure should at least have inheritance. And can make use of associative arrays. With these two things, combined with metaprogramming, it's possible to beat today's new languages.

3, There are a lot of things in the forum that are not being used well. Collect and organize into posts, to gather good post together. The beginner is most important ,because they are the largest group.
4, the D expert's posts should make a seperate group.so that everyone can find it.

On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 14:55:33 UTC, zjh wrote:
>
> 4, the D expert's posts should make a seperate group.so that everyone can find it.

Searching topics for D isn't that bad. However, you should use Google to do it as the D forum is really a newsgroup which Google indexes. The search field in the dlang.org site is almost unusable. I recommend to use Google for searching dlang questions, then you usually find what you want pretty quickly.

On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 02:07:49 UTC, Jack wrote:
> On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 20:23:18 UTC, aberba wrote:
>> On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 18:13:52 UTC, sighoya wrote:
>>> On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 16:26:43 UTC, Marcone wrote:
>>>>Why D is not a popular language?
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>>> Better integration of D with Qt5 and Qt6 and the web would make Dlang rise in popularity.
>>>
>>> Yes, but also better Gtk support would be good?
>>
>> I'm not sure how gtkd can be made any better than it already is. I've got no complaints so far.
>>
>> Qt isn't even cool. Use GTK-d.
>>
>>
>> Or maybe
>>> something new completely in D?
>> We have BeamU and DlangUI. They just don't have enough manpower to polish them up faster.
>
> Does DLangUI has a GUI designer? I've heard of this one before

You can use Glade though

On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 14:47:35 UTC, aberba wrote:
> Those in charge don't even use such fancy tools themselves. So it's it quite unlikely to come from them.

I wonder to what extent the higher-ups and language designers have used/kept up with the newer features of languages such as C++ and C# (latter case in terms of syntax sugar).

There always seems to be that wall of one side being like "This is a large readability/productivity/whatever boost" and another being "I don't get how this is useful, just use a (buggy and or clunky and non-standard) library implementation and be done with it".

I feel other languages are evolving both in language features *and* ecosystem *and* tooling and so on, all at the same time, whilst D mostly focuses on the language and there being only small, dedicated yet separate communities in D's ecosystem, leading to a feeling of (and maybe actual) stagnation in certain areas.

Is there a well-known, public, high-level vision of D anymore? I've expressed this view many times now, but I don't seem to have noticed any real management for D as a whole - just isolated areas of it.

I couldn't really tell you what D's future looks like, since the information either doesn't exist; is hidden behind closed doors, or just isn't in an obvious, easy-to-find location. For example I personally wouldn't call "X made a post in a thread with 50+ replies stating something interesting/important, alson the thread's title is also only barely related", as being an obvious location.

On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 14:55:33 UTC, zjh wrote:
> 2. There is no benefit to GC in D. Better get rid of it.

I think this is part of the problem in our community, the disparity between proponents and opponents of GC utilization.

On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 19:53:44 UTC, sighoya wrote:
> On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 14:55:33 UTC, zjh wrote:
>> 2. There is no benefit to GC in D. Better get rid of it.
>
> I think this is part of the problem in our community, the disparity between proponents and opponents of GC utilization.

GC isn't going away. That decision is also written on stone and sealed. D is always going to have a GC.

The lack of communication/documentation on some of these things is definitely not helpful. D was designed with the better parts of Java and C++ (from the Origin of D)... except GC in D works very different from what comes mind when most people hear the term Garbage Collection.

GC IN D IS NEVER GOING AWAY. LIVE WITH IT or write @nogc code.

On Sunday, 10 January 2021 at 00:10:26 UTC, aberba wrote:
> of Java and C++ (from the Origin of D)... except GC in D works very different from what comes mind when most people hear the term Garbage Collection.

It works like any other GC from the 1960-1970s.