Hello All D philosophers,

	The D language and tools are switching from a very alpha level to a
less alpha level. Or maybe a beta level.
	Walter has done a great job until now. But there are many things to do
yet and he could not do everything.
	I haven't see yet a contributors task list.
	Someone will argue: Just contribute! But organization is a very good
thing. And if we have a task list and priorities specified, this will
transmit more trust for new programmers and engineers. This will help
yet for us know where we wanna going ?
	I propose a task list creation. This list could contain many things:

o	Tools

	- source code formater
	- editors support

o	Documentation

	- Manual enhancement
	- Faq ( from this news )
	- Tutorial
		-- Starting with D
		-- Building 'this app type' with D
		-- Aplication Design with D
		-- C to D
		-- C++ to D
		-- Delphi to D
		-- Java to D
	- Man Pages, help
	- Source code examples

o	Research

	- Porting D to another OS
	- Debuging
	- Case studies

o	Internet Magazine

	- Site
	- D weekly news
	- D status

	My intetion is continue increasing the community and making a 'active
community' more and more.
	The work will depend of personal interests in 'D project'.

Comments, Suggenstion , Negatives ?

	Juarez Rudsatz

"Suporte MPS" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C87DFE7.C1B128B2@correio.com...

> My intetion is continue increasing the community and making a 'active
> community' more and more.
> The work will depend of personal interests in 'D project'.
>
> Comments, Suggenstion , Negatives ?

Nothing against this, but I think that initiative should have come from Walter.

Walter, what do you think of this? Does this form of support fit?

Pavel Minayev wrote:
> 
> "Suporte MPS" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C87DFE7.C1B128B2@correio.com...
> 
> > My intetion is continue increasing the community and making a 'active
> > community' more and more.
> > The work will depend of personal interests in 'D project'.
> >
> > Comments, Suggenstion , Negatives ?
> 
> Nothing against this, but I think that initiative should have come from Walter.
> 
> Walter, what do you think of this? Does this form of support fit?

Understand. Agreed.

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone@omen.ru> wrote in message news:a68njo$6d1$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> "Suporte MPS" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C87DFE7.C1B128B2@correio.com...
> > My intetion is continue increasing the community and making a 'active
> > community' more and more.
> > The work will depend of personal interests in 'D project'.
> > Comments, Suggenstion , Negatives ?
> Nothing against this, but I think that initiative should have
> come from Walter.
> Walter, what do you think of this? Does this form of support fit?

I think it's a fantastic idea. Being at heart a programmer, however, I'm happy if someone else does the managing. I'm very poor at managing anyone and anything but my own work. Any ideas?

Walter wrote:
> 
> "Pavel Minayev" <evilone@omen.ru> wrote in message news:a68njo$6d1$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > "Suporte MPS" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C87DFE7.C1B128B2@correio.com...
> > > My intetion is continue increasing the community and making a 'active
> > > community' more and more.
> > > The work will depend of personal interests in 'D project'.
> > > Comments, Suggenstion , Negatives ?
> > Nothing against this, but I think that initiative should have
> > come from Walter.
> > Walter, what do you think of this? Does this form of support fit?
> 
> I think it's a fantastic idea. Being at heart a programmer, however, I'm happy if someone else does the managing. I'm very poor at managing anyone and anything but my own work. Any ideas?

I suggest delegation.

The algoritm is the following:

1 - Walter takes all emails from this news.
2 - The highest count of messages is the first candidate
3 - Talk with candidate and ask his caracterics. ( Politics,
Compromisse, Time, Patience, Humble, ...)
4 - if(candidate == yes) delegate_him(); else next_candidate()
5 - Person who was delegated will start discution about needs
6 - He makes the list from discution
7 - People choose a task to volutarian
8 - Person groups the work

Comments, Negatives ?

"Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C881751.F32D4402@correio.com...

> I suggest delegation.
>
> The algoritm is the following:
>
> 1 - Walter takes all emails from this news.
> 2 - The highest count of messages is the first candidate
> 3 - Talk with candidate and ask his caracterics. ( Politics,
> Compromisse, Time, Patience, Humble, ...)
> 4 - if(candidate == yes) delegate_him(); else next_candidate()
> 5 - Person who was delegated will start discution about needs
> 6 - He makes the list from discution
> 7 - People choose a task to volutarian
> 8 - Person groups the work
>
> Comments, Negatives ?

Well I don't think it's the best idea... some people who used
to be here in the past seem to disappear, so you have to
take some period - say last month - for more realistic results.
Anyhow, message count is not the best way, if you've read
the "Death to C/C++" topic, you've seen how many messages by
Mr D were posted there - and do you consider him a worthy
candidate? =)

Anyhow, the statistics might be interesting, so I thought I'll check. My archive begins at 16.12.2001 and consists of 1640 messages. So here are the top 3 posters:

    me,     with 473 messages
    OddesE, with 88
    Russ,   with 80

Walter posted 332 messages, but I don't list him here for obvious reasons. =)

"Suporte MPS" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C87DFE7.C1B128B2@correio.com...

> - editors support

What do you mean? Writing an editor, or writing config files for those "multi-purpose" out there?

> - Tutorial
> -- Starting with D

What's the difference between the two?

> -- Building 'this app type' with D

enum this_app_type { /* what? */ }

> -- Aplication Design with D

A bit too early for this, don't you think?
Let's wait till the language is at least beta.

> -- C to D
> -- C++ to D
> -- Delphi to D
> -- Java to D

It's all great, but the problem is, current D compiler doesn't support all the features that are in the specification. So, if I write the "Delphi to D" guide, I'll have to mention about property gettors/settors, right? And then I'll have to add, "but these aren't currently implemented in DMD compiler"...

> - Source code examples

This could be done by taking some well-known set of samples written in C/C++, and converting them to D. Of course, some D-specific features will have to be covered by samples written from scratch.

> - Porting D to another OS
> - Debuging

I thought Walter wants to integrate D with IDDE?

> - Site

It would be required to merge everything mentioned above. However, it's useless until we've got at least one of those.

> - D weekly news

And what shall we put there? Announcements of new versions? What else?

> - D status

I think it's better tracked by the one who works of it, well you know the name =)

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone@omen.ru> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:a69oc1$jkp$4@digitaldaemon.com...
> "Suporte MPS" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C87DFE7.C1B128B2@correio.com...
>
> > - editors support
>
> ... SNIPPED ...

Hi, I agree with your concerns at the moment. Further IMO there is the danger of forking to many different place to look for information about D. Discussion and dynamic should be left here in the newsgroup. Lifting hard facts, value information to something like a D portal (should this be put at digitalmars.com or on an other site?) makes sense to get people interested and started ASAP.

I'm following the news and I really like D but I didn't used it a lot yet (lack of time :-(( and not sure where to start, what to do etc.). So from my point of view things like the following might be a good starting point:

1. Top-Level Information: Most of the stuff can be found in the docs somewhere. It might help to create a dense presentation about this information. Some marketing always helps ;-))

2. Managing contribution: Yes, this makes sense.
- Here I see how to get D connected to the rest of the world. There is the
work done for OpenGL, SDL, ... Those people should write a tutorial how to
create import files for D, what the pitfalls are etc. It would be good if
those efforts are managed to avoid double work.
- The next things are "real-world-examples/projects". It's ok to see some
demos etc. but what are you using D for now? I know it's alpha and not
feature complete but IMO D could be used for normal complex
real-world-projects. Anyone doing something in this direction?
- The docs state what's missing at the moment etc. but what implication has
this for my work? If I don't know D can I decide from this information if D
might be a tool for my project? What benefits do I get if I use it?

--
Robert M. Münch
IT & Management Freelancer
Mobile: +49 (0)177 2452 802
Fax   : +49 (0)721 8408 9112
Web   : http://www.robertmuench.de

"Robert M. Münch" <robert.muench@robertmuench.de> wrote in message news:a6a3j0$opc$1@digitaldaemon.com...

> 2. Managing contribution: Yes, this makes sense.
> - Here I see how to get D connected to the rest of the world. There is the
> work done for OpenGL, SDL, ... Those people should write a tutorial how to
> create import files for D, what the pitfalls are etc. It would be good if
> those efforts are managed to avoid double work.

Err... those? =)
And what's the difficulty with writing import files?

> - The next things are "real-world-examples/projects". It's ok to see some demos etc. but what are you using D for now? I know it's alpha and not feature complete but IMO D could be used for normal complex real-world-projects. Anyone doing something in this direction?

I'm working on the GUI class library for D. It goes pretty nice, and I expect to get it released soon (when I finally choose the event model to use).

Also, I've thought of writing an editor for D modules in D.

This is simply some ideas. This need more dicutions yet.
There are many other things to talk, Lincenses, Marketing...
All things are not just for now. We can do according with resources.

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone@omen.ru> wrote in news:a69oc1$jkp$4 @digitaldaemon.com:

> "Suporte MPS" <juarez@correio.com> wrote in message news:3C87DFE7.C1B128B2@correio.com...
> 
>> - editors support
> 
> What do you mean? Writing an editor, or writing config files for those "multi-purpose" out there?

Both. All Programmers (which I know) like sintax highlight.

> 
>> - Tutorial
>> -- Starting with D
> 
> What's the difference between the two?

- Some examples of Tutorial from my mind {

 -- Starting with D
 -- C to D
 -- C++ to D
 -- Delphi to D
 -- Java to D
 -- Pavel Tips
 -- FAQ from this news.
 ...

}

> 
>> -- Building 'this app type' with D
> 
> enum this_app_type { /* what? */ }
> 
>> -- Aplication Design with D
> 
> A bit too early for this, don't you think?
> Let's wait till the language is at least beta.
> 
>> -- C to D
>> -- C++ to D
>> -- Delphi to D
>> -- Java to D
> 
> It's all great, but the problem is, current D compiler doesn't support all the features that are in the specification. So, if I write the "Delphi to D" guide, I'll have to mention about property gettors/settors, right? And then I'll have to add, "but these aren't currently implemented in DMD compiler"...
> 

It's true. But in a short time this will be done. While this don't happens, We could write others docs explaining what could be done.

>> - Source code examples
> 
> This could be done by taking some well-known set of samples written in C/C++, and converting them to D. Of course, some D-specific features will have to be covered by samples written from scratch.
> 

Yes. This would be great ! But we could reviews the C/C++ strategy like Walter have made with language. What you thing ?

>> - Porting D to another OS
>> - Debuging
> 
> I thought Walter wants to integrate D with IDDE?
> 
>> - Site
> 
> It would be required to merge everything mentioned above. However, it's useless until we've got at least one of those.
> 

Yes.

>> - D weekly news
> 
> And what shall we put there? Announcements of new versions? What else?
> 

See the Abiword weekly news : http://www.abiword.org/information/news/2002/awn82.phtml

>> - D status
> 
> I think it's better tracked by the one who works of it, well you know the name =)
> 

Yes. But we need remove work from this person. Thus he could implement
the so waited features.
This can be a starting point. There are much to be done.