> o    IDDE (environment)
> o    debugger

Are these two items going to be new, or are these the same we had with SC++ 7.5? I have no problem shelling out the $$$ either way, as I am mostly interested in the compiler itself. Besides, I just bought a minivan for my wife for our anniversary, so I doubt she would have a problem with my spending $25 on myself... ;o)

Now, here is a good question....With the introduction of Optlink, I lost the ability to use FlashView to debug X32VM applications. Will the linker be X32-friendly? This would be a big plus for me, personally, but not enough to deter me from buying in. If the linker will be Optlink, well, forget I asked.....

Another useful question -- I am a bit of a wuss when it comes to Windows programming (admittedly, I am primarily a UNIX geek) and rely on AppExpress to get started. Will the new compiler/IDDE combo pick up a project as such and run with it?

> o    and of course, it'll be collectible <g>


That's always a plus. <G>

The idde will be equivalent to the 7.5 one Symantec offered. The improvements are in the underlying tools.

The linker is optlink. I have no idea why this would interfere with debugging x32 applications, perhaps Doug can answer that. The old Zortech blink should still work, anyway. But optlink is a vast improvement over blink.

AppExpress will be included.


Matt Morgan wrote in message <9aj411$24l4$1@digitaldaemon.com>...
>> o    IDDE (environment)
>> o    debugger
>
>Are these two items going to be new, or are these the same we had with SC++ 7.5? I have no problem shelling out the $$$ either way, as I am mostly interested in the compiler itself. Besides, I just bought a minivan for my wife for our anniversary, so I doubt she would have a problem with my spending $25 on myself... ;o)
>
>Now, here is a good question....With the introduction of Optlink, I lost
the
>ability to use FlashView to debug X32VM applications. Will the linker be X32-friendly? This would be a big plus for me, personally, but not enough
to
>deter me from buying in. If the linker will be Optlink, well, forget I asked.....
>
>Another useful question -- I am a bit of a wuss when it comes to Windows programming (admittedly, I am primarily a UNIX geek) and rely on AppExpress to get started. Will the new compiler/IDDE combo pick up a project as such and run with it?
>
>> o    and of course, it'll be collectible <g>
>
>
>That's always a plus. <G>
>
>

Walter <walter@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:9ajfo2$i4r$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> The idde will be equivalent to the 7.5 one Symantec offered. The improvements are in the underlying tools.

Do you know anyone who holds the source code to the IDDE?  Can
it be improved?  For example, I would love to turn off the "feature"
of it adding comments like the "// add your code here" when a new
function is created using ClassExpress.

Also another thing, when Symantec added Java support to the IDDE, Was that a branch off?  You know, that the Expresso thing.

Thirdly, do you know anyone in Symantec who might be willing to throw the source code of Visual Page away that you might want to pick it up. There are potentials in merging Visual Page with a compiler and move along with the so called .NET wave.

> AppExpress will be included.

AppExpress only generate the skeletal application.  Do you mean ClassExpress as well?  The MFC/ATL has moved on so much that the code generated by AppExpress or ClassExpress may not be compatible with MFC > 4.2.  I remember ClassExpress can delete code entered by hand and I stopped using it for a long time.

Kar Gay Lim wrote in message <9akfdb$1gig$1@digitaldaemon.com>...
>Walter <walter@digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:9ajfo2$i4r$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> The idde will be equivalent to the 7.5 one Symantec offered. The improvements are in the underlying tools.
>Do you know anyone who holds the source code to the IDDE?  Can
>it be improved?  For example, I would love to turn off the "feature"
>of it adding comments like the "// add your code here" when a new
>function is created using ClassExpress.



We have the source to our IDDE. What's wrong with "add your code here"? <g>


>Also another thing, when Symantec added Java support to the IDDE, Was that a branch off?  You know, that the Expresso thing.

>Thirdly, do you know anyone in Symantec who might be willing to throw the source code of Visual Page away that you might want to pick it up. There are potentials in merging Visual Page with a compiler and move along with the so called .NET wave.

Visual Cafe is being developed and sold by Webgain now. We will not be supporting java. As you've probably guessed <g>, all the digitalmars web site pages are hand made.


>> AppExpress will be included.
>AppExpress only generate the skeletal application.  Do you mean ClassExpress as well?  The MFC/ATL has moved on so much that the code generated by AppExpress or ClassExpress may not be compatible with MFC > 4.2.  I remember ClassExpress can delete code entered by hand and I stopped using it for a long time.


The new IDDE will include ClassExpress too. The express tools are wonderful for quickly generating apps to solve particular problems, but the price is, as you note, limits on the flexibility.

Walter wrote:

> We have the source to our IDDE. What's wrong with "add your code here"? <g>

Nothing I guess, but it would be great if it could be turned off.

> >Also another thing, when Symantec added Java support to the IDDE, Was that a branch off?  You know, that the Expresso thing.

Yes!
Actually I think it is part of the latest Symantec IDDE which is
not the SC++
7.50 IDDE.

> >Thirdly, do you know anyone in Symantec who might be willing to throw the source code of Visual Page away that you might want to pick it up. There are potentials in merging Visual Page with a compiler and move along with the so called .NET wave.
>
> Visual Cafe is being developed and sold by Webgain now. We will not be supporting java. As you've probably guessed <g>, all the digitalmars web site pages are hand made.

<g>
There is a little difference between Visual PAGE and Visual CAFE
although
Visual PAGE is/was being sold with Visual CAFE.
AFAIK Visual PAGE is completely compiled with SC++...
Visual PAGE is for website development it's a bit like many
other HTML page
development tools around, but Visual PAGE used to be quite
powerful when it was
just released. I would suspect it went to WebGain with Visual
CAFE. I have no
idea where newer versions could be obtained.

Don't worry, be Kneppie!
Jan

Jan Knepper <jan@smartsoft.cc> wrote in message news:3ACE0D19.32FB3EB2@smartsoft.cc...
> Walter wrote:

> There is a little difference between Visual PAGE and Visual CAFE
> although
> Visual PAGE is/was being sold with Visual CAFE.
> AFAIK Visual PAGE is completely compiled with SC++...
> Visual PAGE is for website development it's a bit like many
> other HTML page
> development tools around, but Visual PAGE used to be quite
> powerful when it was
> just released.

It is still has features that others don't do very well!!!  e.g. CSS editing. Boy I love it.... I am still using it!!!

 I would suspect it went to WebGain with Visual
> CAFE. I have no
> idea where newer versions could be obtained.

I guess I should explain what my thoughts are... If I have a couple of million dollars, I would love to get together with you all to do this:....

Love it or hate it, we can't avoid not using Microsoft products. The push lately from MS is the .NET thing. And guess what, the only company that will support C# is Microsoft.  Since Walter did Java, I don't see any reason why a second C# compiler cannot be produced.

For web developments, you need two things - server side scripting and client side scripting. Since Walter has his own scripting tools (faster), I can see that there is a place for them - create an integrated HTML editor with scripting tools, allowing you to compile or emulate the server side scripts and deploy when built.

Anyway, I'll just dream on.....  Back into reality now....

Kar Gay Lim wrote:

> > There is a little difference between Visual PAGE and Visual CAFE
> > although
> > Visual PAGE is/was being sold with Visual CAFE.
> > AFAIK Visual PAGE is completely compiled with SC++...
> > Visual PAGE is for website development it's a bit like many
> > other HTML page
> > development tools around, but Visual PAGE used to be quite
> > powerful when it was
> > just released.
>
> It is still has features that others don't do very well!!!  e.g. CSS editing. Boy I love it.... I am still using it!!!

Are you kidding me?!
Check any of the following sites...
As far as there is a 'decent' page, it's probably done in Visual Page...

http://www.digitaldaemon.com/
http://www.digitaldaemon.net/
http://www.digitaldaemon.org/
http://www.digitaldeamon.com/ (for those that make the ae / eamistake!)
http://www.digitaldeamon.net/
http://www.digitaldeamon.org/
http://www.digitalthunderbolt.com/
http://www.digitalthunderbolt.net/
http://www.digitalthunderbolt.org/
http://www.digitalmilkyway.com/
http://www.digitalmilkyway.net/
http://www.digitalmilkyway.org/
http://www.dutchdaemon.com/
http://www.dutchdaemon.net/
http://www.dutchdaemon.org/
http://www.eternalinfinity.com/
http://www.eternalinfinity.net/
http://www.eternalinfinity.org/
http://www.janknepper.com/
http://www.janknepper.net/
http://www.janknepper.org/
http://www.freebsd-usa.com/
http://www.freebsd-usa.net/
http://www.freebsd-usa.org/
http://www.surfsmurf.net/
http://www.surfsmurf.org/
http://www.virtualsmurfer.com/
http://www.virtualsmurfer.net/
http://www.virtualsmurfer.org/
http://www.smartsoft.cc/
http://www.smartsoft.ws/
http://www.jan.cc/
http://www.jak.org/
http://www.lgal.org/
http://www.lightfeet.com/
http://www.animalaidtour.com/
http://www.animalaidtour.net/
http://www.animalaidtour.org/
http://www.pianoprincess.com/
http://www.lindagenteel.com/

>  I would suspect it went to WebGain with Visual
> > CAFE. I have no
> > idea where newer versions could be obtained.
>
> I guess I should explain what my thoughts are... If I have a couple of million dollars, I would love to get together with you all to do this:....

<g>
So would I, but not yet!
It's cool enough to be able to run a T1 as service to clients/customers and have the
ability to support the Digital Mars compilers this way.

> Love it or hate it, we can't avoid not using Microsoft products. The push lately from MS is the .NET thing. And guess what, the only company that will support C# is Microsoft.  Since Walter did Java, I don't see any reason why a second C# compiler cannot be produced.
>
> For web developments, you need two things - server side scripting and client side scripting. Since Walter has his own scripting tools (faster), I can see that there is a place for them - create an integrated HTML editor with scripting tools, allowing you to compile or emulate the server side scripts and deploy when built.

Great IDEA!
Now... How do we get the Visual Page source code....<g>

Jan

"Walter" <walter@digitalmars.com> wrote in <9ai4d8$1j25$1@digitaldaemon.com>:

>This is why I am motivated to make the compiler available again.
>        I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!

(sorry for the bad syntax, english is not my native language)

I remember a long time ago...

This takes place in the famous C_ECHO on Fidonet - way before the Internet was popular!  I was a newbie then, and learning C on my own.  Of course, I did learn a lot just by reading, but I had to ask a few stupid questions! What's a pointer, why is scanf so bad, etc..

I remember asking a question to which I received a few "RTFM" and "puhleez" answers.  I don't remember what that question was, I think it was something about the * parameter in the printf-series of functions.  I got **one** message that was worth it.

An explanation about 2-3 screenfuls long, detailing why the functions worked that way, how it could and should be used, and a very needed encouragement near the end, a pat in the back that kept me learning.  I'm quite sure if I search a bit, I can find the printout I kept pinned to the wall for a long time!

The message was signed "Walter Bright".  It took me several months to discover who that Mr.Bright was (Bob Stout told me later as I was enquiring about his MFL library).  And when I did, I couldn't believe that a person who writes compilers for a living would take the time to answer questions in C_ECHO, let alone trivial questions such as mine.

Let's say I was very happy when I accidentally discovered the DigitalMars website!

I don't know if this can add to your motivation, but what you did in the late 80's sure did mean a great deal to me.

Robert

That is nice to hear that I could have such an influence. If you can find the message, how about emailing it to me? Maybe I can put it in the FAQ <g>.

Thanks!


Robert La Ferté wrote in message ...
>"Walter" <walter@digitalmars.com> wrote in <9ai4d8$1j25$1@digitaldaemon.com>:
>
>>This is why I am motivated to make the compiler available again.
>>        I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!
>
>(sorry for the bad syntax, english is not my native language)
>
>I remember a long time ago...
>
>This takes place in the famous C_ECHO on Fidonet - way before the Internet was popular!  I was a newbie then, and learning C on my own.  Of course, I did learn a lot just by reading, but I had to ask a few stupid questions! What's a pointer, why is scanf so bad, etc..
>
>I remember asking a question to which I received a few "RTFM" and "puhleez" answers.  I don't remember what that question was, I think it was something about the * parameter in the printf-series of functions.  I got **one** message that was worth it.
>
>An explanation about 2-3 screenfuls long, detailing why the functions worked that way, how it could and should be used, and a very needed encouragement near the end, a pat in the back that kept me learning.  I'm quite sure if I search a bit, I can find the printout I kept pinned to the wall for a long time!
>
>The message was signed "Walter Bright".  It took me several months to discover who that Mr.Bright was (Bob Stout told me later as I was enquiring about his MFL library).  And when I did, I couldn't believe that a person who writes compilers for a living would take the time to answer questions in C_ECHO, let alone trivial questions such as mine.
>
>Let's say I was very happy when I accidentally discovered the DigitalMars website!
>
>I don't know if this can add to your motivation, but what you did in the late 80's sure did mean a great deal to me.
>
>Robert

Robert La Ferté wrote in message ...
>The message was signed "Walter Bright".  It took me several months to discover who that Mr.Bright was (Bob Stout told me later as I was enquiring about his MFL library).  And when I did, I couldn't believe that a person who writes compilers for a living would take the time to answer questions in C_ECHO, let alone trivial questions such as mine.



I'm worried about Bob Stout. He doesn't reply to my emails lately, and his web site hasn't been updated in a long time. Anyone know if he's ok?