On Friday, August 06, 2010 15:54:51 Walter Bright wrote:
> 10. HTML is a visually butt-ugly format that makes my eyes bleed pus. Very hard to read.

Note to self: Don't go anywhere near Walter when he's reading HTML.

- Jonathan M Davis

Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> This is the same method used in some text editors (e.g. Scite uses this exact same method for variables, $() ).

Yah, I just used the makefile syntax.

Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> Unfortunately, having to use dmc for C or C++ in order to link it with D code in Windows would make D a non-starter for any project that couldn't be in pure D where I work. Most of our stuff is cross-platform between Linux and Windows, using gcc on Linux and Visual Studio on Windows, and I don't think that there's any hope of getting anyone to switch to using dmc. If D code could be linked with code generated by Microsoft's compiler, then I'd have a much better chance of getting folks where I work to use D. As it is, it would have to be for standalone projects only, and most of our projects aren't standalone.

I hadn't realized that was a barrier.

On Friday, August 06, 2010 16:35:57 Walter Bright wrote:
> Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> > Unfortunately, having to use dmc for C or C++ in order to link it with D code in Windows would make D a non-starter for any project that couldn't be in pure D where I work. Most of our stuff is cross-platform between Linux and Windows, using gcc on Linux and Visual Studio on Windows, and I don't think that there's any hope of getting anyone to switch to using dmc. If D code could be linked with code generated by Microsoft's compiler, then I'd have a much better chance of getting folks where I work to use D. As it is, it would have to be for standalone projects only, and most of our projects aren't standalone.
> 
> I hadn't realized that was a barrier.

It certainly wouldn't be for me personally for my own stuff (though I probably wouldn't be programming on Windows anyway), but the company I work for (and actually any that I've worked for which has used C++) has specificaly used Visual Studio with Microsoft's compiler and linker, and getting them to change that would take  _lot_ of convincing if not be outright impossible. So, if D code needs to link with the same linker as the C/C++ code in order for them to work together, then linking D with dmc instead of Microsoft's linker does become a serious barrier.

Unfortunately, in order to be able to use D where I work, I'd have to be able to link the D code with C/C++ code which has been built with Visual Studio and its compiler and linker. And, if I understand correctly, that means that the D code has to be linked with Microsoft's linker. If that's a misunderstanding on my part, then linking D with Microsoft's linker would be unnecessary, and dmc should do the job just fine (though only needing the one C/C++ linker over two would still be an improvement). But as I understand it, any C or C++ code which is going to be used with D code in Windows has to have been built with dmc.

- Jonathan M Davis

Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> Unfortunately, in order to be able to use D where I work, I'd have to be able to link the D code with C/C++ code which has been built with Visual Studio and its compiler and linker. And, if I understand correctly, that means that the D code has to be linked with Microsoft's linker. If that's a misunderstanding on my part, then linking D with Microsoft's linker would be unnecessary, and dmc should do the job just fine (though only needing the one C/C++ linker over two would still be an improvement). But as I understand it, any C or C++ code which is going to be used with D code in Windows has to have been built with dmc.

This actually used to be possible with dmc, but Microsoft has repeatedly changed formats (some of them are secret, too) and I gave up endlessly chasing those changes.

On Friday 06 August 2010 18:07:51 Walter Bright wrote:
> Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> > Unfortunately, in order to be able to use D where I work, I'd have to be able to link the D code with C/C++ code which has been built with Visual Studio and its compiler and linker. And, if I understand correctly, that means that the D code has to be linked with Microsoft's linker. If that's a misunderstanding on my part, then linking D with Microsoft's linker would be unnecessary, and dmc should do the job just fine (though only needing the one C/C++ linker over two would still be an improvement). But as I understand it, any C or C++ code which is going to be used with D code in Windows has to have been built with dmc.
> 
> This actually used to be possible with dmc, but Microsoft has repeatedly changed formats (some of them are secret, too) and I gave up endlessly chasing those changes.

So, it is understandably not possible to do the linking with dmc. Would it be possible to make it so that dmd could link using Microsoft's linker? Or is enough of what Microsoft's doing secret and/or too difficult to keep track of to make it possible to use Microsoft's linker with dmd?

- Jonathan M Davis

Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> So, it is understandably not possible to do the linking with dmc. Would it be possible to make it so that dmd could link using Microsoft's linker? Or is enough of what Microsoft's doing secret and/or too difficult to keep track of to make it possible to use Microsoft's linker with dmd?

At this point, I don't know. I just recall it being a constant drain on my time to keep things working as MS would change their compiler, libraries, and tools.

"Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:i3i3v6$kj6$2@digitalmars.com...
> Lutger wrote:
>>> doesn't really make much difference than using <p>...</p>.  The
>>> advantage
>>> of using html tags for formatting like this means editors will recognize
>>> tags, and everyone and their mother knows what html tags look like.
>> One trick that can work wonders here is treating ddoc as lisp code, most editors are very helpful with that.
>
> I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. All you need is a parenthesis matching command. Heck, I think I even wrote one for Emacs 25 years ago.

I use Programmer's Notepad 2 which does parenthesis-matching out-of-the-box.

"Walter Bright" <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:i3i2m7$i9d$1@digitalmars.com...
>
> But the editor I use (microemacs) has a fabulous feature, F3, which finds the matching ( { [ < > ] } ) #ifdef/#elif/#else/#endif when the cursor is placed on one of those. It makes it utterly trivial to find the mismatch.
>

Many editors will automatically highlight a match/mismatch without even pressing a key. For instance, I use Programmer's Notepad 2: Even out-of-the-box, if you place the cursor on a ( { [ ] } ), in a ddoc comment or anywhere else, then both that character and the matching one will turn bold and blue. If there isn't a matching one, then the one under the cursor turns bold and red. That's helped me many times.

> BTW, back when the doc was in HTML, it was absolutely rife with mismatched HTML open and close tags. The fact that browsers would render it anyway I did not regard as a feature.

My opinion on that has changed somewhat over the years. Originally, my opinion was "Huh? That seems dumb." Now I consider it one of the stupidest, most colossal, and most painful blunders of the 1990's.

>
> The other feature of the macro method is, obviously, that they can be customized to generate all sorts of things. I believe that candydoc relies on that.

Many web monkeys would probably argue "That's what CSS is for!" But, of course, CSS is shit for layouts. Doubly-so for non-fixed-width layouts. About the only thing it doesn't suck for is formatting, but even that could be better (ex: Is there *any* consistent logic to what's "font-" and what's "text-"?).

And I'll see your "HTML/XML syntax is a horrid verbose mess", and raise you a "(X)HTML's shittiness extends far beyond the syntax."

"Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisprog@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.165.1281141748.13841.digitalmars-d@puremagic.com...
>
> but the company I work for (and
> actually any that I've worked for which has used C++) has specificaly used
> Visual
> Studio with Microsoft's compiler and linker

Intel's C/C++ compiler is very popular too, particularly in game development (unless my information is out-of-date, which it may very well be by now... :/ ...fucking web...). I don't know if it has it's own linker or not, or what object format it uses, though.