Hi,

I just did unburrow my very old project from 2006. It was actually written initially in 2005 in D1, but in 2006, I update it to D2 (just simple changes like char[] -> string, and .dup -> .idup in one or two) and it worked just fine.

It is just 380 lines of easy code.

So now is 2021, I wanted to use it again. And it doesn't compile, requiring some fixes due to use of some old phobos stuff, and one minor language change.

I took it out, and after minor corrections (like std.ctypes -> core.stdc.ctypes), and int -> size_t (because I use 64-bit machine now, and should have used size_t from the start), derr -> stderr, and writeLine -> writeln, and convert else {;} which is deprecated (but makes an compile Error), to else {}.

Almost done...

I stumbled over our old friend BufferedFile and OutputStream from std.stream. It was easy to convert, but I wanted to make sure the semantic of the replacement is same as the old one, and what is the recommended replacement.

I was not able to find any mention of deprecation or removal of std.stderr in ANY DMD / Phobos release notes / changelogs.

I think this is tragic.

Don't get me wrong, deprecating stuff and removing them after grace period is fine, if we find better and more long term solutions. But they must be communicated VERY well.

I found the undeaD, which I never needed to use, (and because this program is small, I can just fix the program), and it does carry std.stream, and in one of the first commits ( https://github.com/dlang/undeaD/commit/d9bf1f2f3c00ae3139e9f5dcb883f32b2708d3c7#diff-6074870e72711b78f702f61a4143523ca5773e8a8fe6e6114e4f37d12640d118 ) it says, in September 2015:

Add std.stream and friends to undead.

Their documentation was removed from the site as of 2.068, and they will
be deprecated in 2.069. ....

However, changelogs for 2.068, 2.069 and all the one after it, doesn't mention anything of this sort.

I did found old docs, that do mention it is deprecated, but doesn't suggest replacements, why it is deprecated, and non of that is mentioned in changelogs.

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.066.0/phobos/std_stream.html - Warning about intent to deprecate / find replace.

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.067.0/phobos/std_stream.html - ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.068.0/phobos/std_stream.html - ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.069.0/phobos/std_stream.html - ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.070.0/phobos/std_stream.html - Deprecation notice, and forward notice of removal in October 2016

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.071.0/phobos/std_stream.html - ditto

https://docarchives.dlang.io/v2.072.0/phobos/std_stream.html - gone (at least in docs, not sure if it is actually gone)

However, none of this is reflected in Changelogs / Release notes.

Is there a formal process for deprecation for D and Phobos, and procedures that such changes undergo, to make it clear and discoverable?

I still can not find discussions, bugs, about the deprecation or removal, that would allow me to understand what happened, when exactly, and how I should proceed.

The example was for std.stream, but this applies to many other modules in Phobos.

On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:34:09 UTC, Witold Baryluk wrote:

I mean, in 2011 I updated it to D2. Typo.

On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:34:09 UTC, Witold Baryluk wrote:

The current process is described in DIP 1013, "The Deprecation Process":

https://github.com/dlang/DIPs/blob/master/DIPs/accepted/DIP1013.md

However, this process was adopted relatively recently, in 2019, so it would not have applied to the changes you mentioned in your post.

On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 15:41:32 UTC, Paul Backus wrote:

That is great. Is there some tool that I can run on two Phobos versions, and compare them programmatically and see which public symbols and modules get removed, to enforce this DIP?