Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> BLS wrote:
> 
>> Lars Ivar Igesund schrieb:
>>...
>> Kind regards Björn
> 
> Yes, but there Java 1.2 is a stable specification. What I am trying to say,
> is that D 1.0 needs to be set enough in stone, so that the document/webpage
> on it don't change on the first new release of DMD. I personally don't
> think "Just use the compiler tagged 1.0, and you have a stable
> environment." is good enough, because we _will_ want bugfixes, and we
> _will_ want to use new (or test) features when they appear (or when they
> have proved themselves), without ruining the application we spent hours and
> hours on to get working with D 1.0.
> 
1.0.xxx for the stable tree and 1.1.xxx for the experimental tree?

Lars Ivar Igesund escribió:
> BLS wrote:
> 
>> Lars Ivar Igesund schrieb:
>>
>>> Björn, I might sound pessimistic, but this how how D/DMD always has been,
>>> and Walter has yet to say how this will change to accomodate the fact
>>> that we will have a stable release.
>>>
>> I still have to call myself a D newbie and so my opinion is probabely
>> not much worth.  I guess you'll agree that there are allready a lot of
>> goodies implemented in D. So that a nowadays written library will/could
>> survive a few years.
>>
>> I would like to mention here the gnu classpath lib. (0.92) which uses
>> the Java 1.2 language features and is (again IMO) pretty stableand
>> usefull It also seems that the classpath guys are able to find a way to
>> upgrade classpath to generics without "too" much pain.
>>
>> Kind regards Björn
> 
> Yes, but there Java 1.2 is a stable specification. What I am trying to say,
> is that D 1.0 needs to be set enough in stone, so that the document/webpage
> on it don't change on the first new release of DMD. I personally don't
> think "Just use the compiler tagged 1.0, and you have a stable
> environment." is good enough, because we _will_ want bugfixes, and we
> _will_ want to use new (or test) features when they appear (or when they
> have proved themselves), without ruining the application we spent hours and
> hours on to get working with D 1.0.
> 

I might be misunderstanding you, but here's what I get: starting in January, the DigitalMars site gets an addition section entitled "The D 1.0 Spec" or something like that, which won't ever change. Further changes to DMD or new D versions have to be done in a different section/document. If this is what you're proposing, I strongly agree.

-- 
Carlos Santander Bernal

Carlos Santander wrote:

> Lars Ivar Igesund escribió:
>> BLS wrote:
>> 
>>> Lars Ivar Igesund schrieb:
>>>
>>>> Björn, I might sound pessimistic, but this how how D/DMD always has been, and Walter has yet to say how this will change to accomodate the fact that we will have a stable release.
>>>>
>>> I still have to call myself a D newbie and so my opinion is probabely not much worth.  I guess you'll agree that there are allready a lot of goodies implemented in D. So that a nowadays written library will/could survive a few years.
>>>
>>> I would like to mention here the gnu classpath lib. (0.92) which uses the Java 1.2 language features and is (again IMO) pretty stableand usefull It also seems that the classpath guys are able to find a way to upgrade classpath to generics without "too" much pain.
>>>
>>> Kind regards Björn
>> 
>> Yes, but there Java 1.2 is a stable specification. What I am trying to say, is that D 1.0 needs to be set enough in stone, so that the document/webpage on it don't change on the first new release of DMD. I personally don't think "Just use the compiler tagged 1.0, and you have a stable environment." is good enough, because we _will_ want bugfixes, and we _will_ want to use new (or test) features when they appear (or when they have proved themselves), without ruining the application we spent hours and hours on to get working with D 1.0.
>> 
> 
> I might be misunderstanding you, but here's what I get: starting in January, the DigitalMars site gets an addition section entitled "The D 1.0 Spec" or something like that, which won't ever change. Further changes to DMD or new D versions have to be done in a different section/document. If this is what you're proposing, I strongly agree.
> 

Well, after this, Walter has stated his purpose in this matter, and it is at least somewhere along the road where I want it :)

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource & #D: larsivi

Walter Bright wrote:

> We'll release it one way or another Jan 1. And then we'll move on!

Great news! And we'll try to have a wxD 1.0 library to match it then!

--anders

Walter Bright wrote:
> We'll release it one way or another Jan 1. And then we'll move on!

I'm skeptic that it will make much difference in D's popularity, acceptance, or usability, but I guess we'll just have to see then (in the following period).

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - MSc in CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D

I'm totally getting one!  But no Dallas Texas ?!?

Pragma wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> We'll release it one way or another Jan 1. And then we'll move on!
> 
> Does that mean that I can start printing t-shirts?
> 
> http://www.zazzle.com/pramga/product/235223788036545236
> 
> Wow.. this'll be a great new-year.
> 
> //I know I'm a huge nerd.
> //Yes, I'm okay with that.

Yes, for some reason this bothers me to no end.  *Please* *please* update this for 1.0 ( the double meaning of 'auto' ).

Charlie

Sean Kelly wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> Brad Roberts wrote:
>>> Can you clarify for the rest of us what you consider this milestone meaning / containing?  What changes at that point in time?  What do you consider finished, frozen, whatever?
>>>
>>> This has come up each time a 1.0 point has been suggested, with lots of potential things to fall into the bucket, but I don't recall ever seeing your point of view.
>>>
>>> I'm purposely not including my thoughts or any of the past thoughts from other people since I'm seeking a fairly complete response from you rather than a short agreement sort of answer.
>>
>> Feature complete is one of those mirage things, the list of what needs to be added to D is never ending and ever changing. So my intention is to straighten out what we've got now as best I can, call it 1.0, and we can all move on doing continuous improvement.
> 
> One aspect of a 1.0 release is how to handle deprecation of current features.  Perhaps any outstanding "to do" items that may affect existing functionality could be addressed, at least in the spec, before Jan 1st?  The only feature I can think of offhand is the double-meaning of "auto" vs. the "MyClass c = MyClass()" syntax you mentioned a while back, but there may be others.
> 
> 
> Sean

J Duncan wrote:
> Pragma wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> We'll release it one way or another Jan 1. And then we'll move on!
>>
>> Does that mean that I can start printing t-shirts?
>>
>> http://www.zazzle.com/pramga/product/235223788036545236
>>
>> Wow.. this'll be a great new-year.
>>
>> //I know I'm a huge nerd.
>> //Yes, I'm okay with that.
> 
> awwwwwwwwwsome, Im getting one - too bad it doesn't come in a sweatshirt

Well, don't forget that I disabled the protections on the high-resolution versions of those graphics.  By all means, rip the images and take it over to another shop so you can get it your way!

PS, anyone else here know of an online shop that does printed *sleeves* as well?

Charlie wrote:
> I'm totally getting one!  But no Dallas Texas ?!?
> 
> Pragma wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> We'll release it one way or another Jan 1. And then we'll move on!
>>
>> Does that mean that I can start printing t-shirts?
>>
>> http://www.zazzle.com/pramga/product/235223788036545236
>>
>> Wow.. this'll be a great new-year.
>>
>> //I know I'm a huge nerd.
>> //Yes, I'm okay with that.

Sorry about that. :(

As others have stated, the locations were taken from the D frappr group.  I may have missed it, or composed this before that was added to the list.

FWIW, here's what's on the thing now.  The images are also copyable from the "large view" feature of the site.  Feel free to branch and extend things from there as you see fit:

[NORTH AMERICA]
Toronto.ON Markham.ON Vancouver.BC Plymouth.MA NewFreedom.PA
Broomall.PA CollegePark.MD Washington.DC Woodbridge.VA
Lugoff.SC Lawrenceville.GA Atlanta.GA CapeCoral.FL
Calgary.AL Moscow.ID Indianapolis.IN Houghton.MI
Winona.MN RedWing.MN Austin.TX Houston.TX Edmond.OK
SantaBarbara.CA PaloAlto.CA FairOaks.CA Oceanside.CA
IowaCity.IA Cheney.WA Corvallis.OR Portland.OR
[SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA]
Quito.EC BuenosAires.AR
[EUROPE]
Alzette.LU Malaga, ES Lisbon.PT Loughborough.UK York.UK
Manchestershiresville.UK Trondheim.NO
Aanekoski.FI Helsinki.FI Turku.FI
Orebro.SE Stockholm.SE Uppsala.SE Norrkoping.SE Breda.NL
Stuttgart.DE Karlsruhe.DE Dingolfing.DE Berlin.DE Leipzig.DE
Baden-Wurttemberg.DE Strande.DE Leipzig.DE
Linz.AT Vienna.AT Kiev.UA Riga.LV Tartu.EE Budapest.HU
Torun.PL Zagreb.HR Kragujevac.CS Ljubljana.SL
[ASIA]
Pradesh.IN Tokyo.JP Moscow.RU
[AUSTRALIA]
Melbourne.VIC Canberra.ACT

pragma wrote:
> Charlie wrote:
> 
>> I'm totally getting one!  But no Dallas Texas ?!?
>>
>> Pragma wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>
>>>> We'll release it one way or another Jan 1. And then we'll move on!
>>>
>>>
>>> Does that mean that I can start printing t-shirts?
>>>
>>> http://www.zazzle.com/pramga/product/235223788036545236
>>>
>>> Wow.. this'll be a great new-year.
>>>
>>> //I know I'm a huge nerd.
>>> //Yes, I'm okay with that.
> 
> 
> Sorry about that. :(
> 
> As others have stated, the locations were taken from the D frappr group.  I may have missed it, or composed this before that was added to the list.
> 
> FWIW, here's what's on the thing now.  The images are also copyable from the "large view" feature of the site.  Feel free to branch and extend things from there as you see fit:
> 
> [NORTH AMERICA]
> Toronto.ON Markham.ON Vancouver.BC Plymouth.MA NewFreedom.PA
> Broomall.PA CollegePark.MD Washington.DC Woodbridge.VA
> Lugoff.SC Lawrenceville.GA Atlanta.GA CapeCoral.FL
> Calgary.AL Moscow.ID Indianapolis.IN Houghton.MI
> Winona.MN RedWing.MN Austin.TX Houston.TX Edmond.OK
> SantaBarbara.CA PaloAlto.CA FairOaks.CA Oceanside.CA
> IowaCity.IA Cheney.WA Corvallis.OR Portland.OR
> [SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA]
> Quito.EC BuenosAires.AR
> [EUROPE]
> Alzette.LU Malaga, ES Lisbon.PT Loughborough.UK York.UK
> Manchestershiresville.UK Trondheim.NO
> Aanekoski.FI Helsinki.FI Turku.FI
> Orebro.SE Stockholm.SE Uppsala.SE Norrkoping.SE Breda.NL
> Stuttgart.DE Karlsruhe.DE Dingolfing.DE Berlin.DE Leipzig.DE
> Baden-Wurttemberg.DE Strande.DE Leipzig.DE
> Linz.AT Vienna.AT Kiev.UA Riga.LV Tartu.EE Budapest.HU
> Torun.PL Zagreb.HR Kragujevac.CS Ljubljana.SL
> [ASIA]
> Pradesh.IN Tokyo.JP Moscow.RU
> [AUSTRALIA]
> Melbourne.VIC Canberra.ACT

You're missing Owensboro, KY too.  ;)  Of course, only one of us is on the Frappr map, so we're easy to miss.  I'll probably just do my own "branch" of the shirt if that's the easier way.  Too cool.

-- Chris Nicholson-Sauls