The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.

you can use the "nc" command before starting the debuggee to make ddbg
open a new console for it. i think that's the best solution for that
problem. no prefix can be unique and it's a lot more readable to
separate the ouput properly.
i will still consider adding a prefix as an option if there is need for it.

bobef wrote:
> The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.

There is need. To create a font end the two things must be separated. Also the prefix don't have to be "unique", it just have to be something that is different from the debugger's output. Say the debugee's output is prefixed with # or $ or whatever. I doubt that any message of the debugger starts with $ (or something other). So when the line begins with $ just strip the $ and the rest is debugee's output, otherwise it is debugger's.


Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:

> you can use the "nc" command before starting the debuggee to make ddbg
> open a new console for it. i think that's the best solution for that
> problem. no prefix can be unique and it's a lot more readable to
> separate the ouput properly.
> i will still consider adding a prefix as an option if there is need for it.
> 
> bobef wrote:
> > The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.

ok, to be sure, i'll make the prefix configurable.
personally, i use a new console when using Code::Blocks as a front end.
i wonder if a that ouput could be redirected to a front end as well.

bobef wrote:
> There is need. To create a font end the two things must be separated. Also the prefix don't have to be "unique", it just have to be something that is different from the debugger's output. Say the debugee's output is prefixed with # or $ or whatever. I doubt that any message of the debugger starts with $ (or something other). So when the line begins with $ just strip the $ and the rest is debugee's output, otherwise it is debugger's.
> 
> 
> Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:
> 
>> you can use the "nc" command before starting the debuggee to make ddbg
>> open a new console for it. i think that's the best solution for that
>> problem. no prefix can be unique and it's a lot more readable to
>> separate the ouput properly.
>> i will still consider adding a prefix as an option if there is need for it.
>>
>> bobef wrote:
>>> The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.
> 

hm, i guess i misunderstood you.
prefixing the debuggee's output requires intercepting it's output, which is not a good idea.
prefixing the debugger's output isn't unambiguous, since the debuggee can always use the same prefix.
therefore, the best solution is to separate the two output streams by using different consoles, as implemented by the "nc" command. i'd recommend that you consider using this solution.
as i said, i can add a configurable prefix for the debugger's output, but that's pretty hacky, imho.

Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:

> ok, to be sure, i'll make the prefix configurable.
> personally, i use a new console when using Code::Blocks as a front end.
> i wonder if a that ouput could be redirected to a front end as well.
> 
> bobef wrote:
> > There is need. To create a font end the two things must be separated. Also the prefix don't have to be "unique", it just have to be something that is different from the debugger's output. Say the debugee's output is prefixed with # or $ or whatever. I doubt that any message of the debugger starts with $ (or something other). So when the line begins with $ just strip the $ and the rest is debugee's output, otherwise it is debugger's.
> > 
> > 
> > Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:
> > 
> >> you can use the "nc" command before starting the debuggee to make ddbg
> >> open a new console for it. i think that's the best solution for that
> >> problem. no prefix can be unique and it's a lot more readable to
> >> separate the ouput properly.
> >> i will still consider adding a prefix as an option if there is need for it.
> >>
> >> bobef wrote:
> >>> The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.
> > 

Jascha Wetzel wrote:
> ok, to be sure, i'll make the prefix configurable.
> personally, i use a new console when using Code::Blocks as a front end.
> i wonder if a that ouput could be redirected to a front end as well.
> 
> bobef wrote:
>> There is need. To create a font end the two things must be separated. Also the prefix don't have to be "unique", it just have to be something that is different from the debugger's output. Say the debugee's output is prefixed with # or $ or whatever. I doubt that any message of the debugger starts with $ (or something other). So when the line begins with $ just strip the $ and the rest is debugee's output, otherwise it is debugger's.
>>
>>
>> Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:
>>
>>> you can use the "nc" command before starting the debuggee to make ddbg
>>> open a new console for it. i think that's the best solution for that
>>> problem. no prefix can be unique and it's a lot more readable to
>>> separate the ouput properly.
>>> i will still consider adding a prefix as an option if there is need for it.
>>>
>>> bobef wrote:
>>>> The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.

Note that in your earlier message you seemed to think he wanted a prefix on the output of the debugger, but he meant the _debuggee_. Just in case you missed that.
This shouldn't be a problem, since presumably you (as the author of the debugger) have control over what messages the debugger itself generates and can ensure it never starts with the chosen prefix?

I see. Then how to get the both outputs to the front end and let it know which one is which?



Jascha Wetzel Wrote:

> hm, i guess i misunderstood you.
> prefixing the debuggee's output requires intercepting it's output, which is not a good idea.
> prefixing the debugger's output isn't unambiguous, since the debuggee can always use the same prefix.
> therefore, the best solution is to separate the two output streams by using different consoles, as implemented by the "nc" command. i'd recommend that you consider using this solution.
> as i said, i can add a configurable prefix for the debugger's output, but that's pretty hacky, imho.
> 
> Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:
> 
> > ok, to be sure, i'll make the prefix configurable.
> > personally, i use a new console when using Code::Blocks as a front end.
> > i wonder if a that ouput could be redirected to a front end as well.
> > 
> > bobef wrote:
> > > There is need. To create a font end the two things must be separated. Also the prefix don't have to be "unique", it just have to be something that is different from the debugger's output. Say the debugee's output is prefixed with # or $ or whatever. I doubt that any message of the debugger starts with $ (or something other). So when the line begins with $ just strip the $ and the rest is debugee's output, otherwise it is debugger's.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:
> > > 
> > >> you can use the "nc" command before starting the debuggee to make ddbg
> > >> open a new console for it. i think that's the best solution for that
> > >> problem. no prefix can be unique and it's a lot more readable to
> > >> separate the ouput properly.
> > >> i will still consider adding a prefix as an option if there is need for it.
> > >>
> > >> bobef wrote:
> > >>> The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.
> > > 
> 

Frits van Bommel wrote:
> Note that in your earlier message you seemed to think he wanted a prefix
> on the output of the debugger, but he meant the _debuggee_. Just in case
> you missed that.
> This shouldn't be a problem, since presumably you (as the author of the
> debugger) have control over what messages the debugger itself generates
> and can ensure it never starts with the chosen prefix?

yep, took me some time to realize that ;)
see my other post for the problem with this.

one could use named pipes or simply control the debugger through an API
instead of a CLI.
i've just looked at the GDB/MI specs, they also require the debugger to
prefix the debuggee's output. GDB/MI appears to not distinguish stdout
and stderr output, though.

personally i feel that using a separate pair of IO streams (or an API) for controlling the debugger would be nicer. but since i will implement GDB/MI for compatibility reasons anyway, the effort of implementing an alternative approach won't be worthwhile.


bobef wrote:
> I see. Then how to get the both outputs to the front end and let it know which one is which?
> 
> 
> 
> Jascha Wetzel Wrote:
> 
>> hm, i guess i misunderstood you.
>> prefixing the debuggee's output requires intercepting it's output, which is not a good idea.
>> prefixing the debugger's output isn't unambiguous, since the debuggee can always use the same prefix.
>> therefore, the best solution is to separate the two output streams by using different consoles, as implemented by the "nc" command. i'd recommend that you consider using this solution.
>> as i said, i can add a configurable prefix for the debugger's output, but that's pretty hacky, imho.
>>
>> Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:
>>
>>> ok, to be sure, i'll make the prefix configurable.
>>> personally, i use a new console when using Code::Blocks as a front end.
>>> i wonder if a that ouput could be redirected to a front end as well.
>>>
>>> bobef wrote:
>>>> There is need. To create a font end the two things must be separated. Also the prefix don't have to be "unique", it just have to be something that is different from the debugger's output. Say the debugee's output is prefixed with # or $ or whatever. I doubt that any message of the debugger starts with $ (or something other). So when the line begins with $ just strip the $ and the rest is debugee's output, otherwise it is debugger's.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jascha Wetzel <[firstname]@mainia.de> Wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> you can use the "nc" command before starting the debuggee to make ddbg
>>>>> open a new console for it. i think that's the best solution for that
>>>>> problem. no prefix can be unique and it's a lot more readable to
>>>>> separate the ouput properly.
>>>>> i will still consider adding a prefix as an option if there is need for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> bobef wrote:
>>>>>> The debugee's output must be distinguished from the debuggers's output by prefix or something. Otherwise it is impossible for non-human to say which one is which. A single character would do nicely.
> 

Jascha Wetzel wrote:
> Frits van Bommel wrote:
>> Note that in your earlier message you seemed to think he wanted a prefix
>> on the output of the debugger, but he meant the _debuggee_. Just in case
>> you missed that.
>> This shouldn't be a problem, since presumably you (as the author of the
>> debugger) have control over what messages the debugger itself generates
>> and can ensure it never starts with the chosen prefix?
> 
> yep, took me some time to realize that ;)
> see my other post for the problem with this.

Yeah, you beat me to posting that by a couple of minutes :).