John Reimer Wrote:

> Kris wrote:
> > "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley@gmail.vom> wrote in message news:fnijfv$6go$1@digitalmars.com...
> >> I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I was when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was very well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.
> >>
> >> I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 2.0 section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally switching to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta testing.
> >>
> >> When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual (which was incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I have been inserting the text files into my word processor and using copy and paste to get the graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it and will hopefully have a document I can convert to pdf.
> >>
> >> I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and reference's is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another life in my first career. But getting the reference material for both D and Tango in to a pdf format and in a place on the web sites that is easily accessible would go along way to help get others to adopt D as their language of choice.
> > 
> > 
> > I agree :)
> > 
> > Please forgive this indugence, but there is a book available on both D and Tango (also available as ebook PDF): http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/LearnToTangoWithD
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D

I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
(shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango reference manual.

Larry

Kris Wrote:

> "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley@gmail.vom> wrote in message news:fnijfv$6go$1@digitalmars.com...
> >I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I was when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was very well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.
> >
> > I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 2.0 section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally switching to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta testing.
> >
> > When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual (which was incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I have been inserting the text files into my word processor and using copy and paste to get the graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it and will hopefully have a document I can convert to pdf.
> >
> > I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and reference's is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another life in my first career. But getting the reference material for both D and Tango in to a pdf format and in a place on the web sites that is easily accessible would go along way to help get others to adopt D as their language of choice.
> 
> 
> I agree :)
> 
> Please forgive this indugence, but there is a book available on both D and Tango (also available as ebook PDF): http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/LearnToTangoWithD
> 
> 

Sorry I am never quit sure which thread to reply to do this is a duplicate reply. I have ordered the book. It shipped from Amazon yesterday. It has not arrived yet.

Larry

Larry wrote:

>>
>> Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D
> 
> I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
> (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango reference manual.
> 
> Larry
> 

Ouch! :(

I'm pretty sure it is, though.  :)

-JJR

Edward Diener wrote:
> I have a basic initial suggestion, as I am persuing the D pdf dcument I downloaded in order to understand of what the language consisted. The basic suggestion regards documentation for D itself. I believe the most important thing for getting others to be interested in a new programming language is the unglamorous chore of presenting the documentation for that language to others. While the pdf documentation I am reading is adequately thorough, I have a few suggestions:

I agree with you, but the current problem is that the pdf files need to be manually created, and they fall further and further out of date. What needs to be done is to be able to automatically generate a pdf from the web site source material.

> 1) A link to the downloaded documentation for D should be almost the first thing a viewer should see when they click on the D portion of the Digital Mars web site. It should be front and center. I realize there is a separate Language link on the left hand side which takes me to an online set of pages which explain D and I realize that somewhere down on the initial page there is a line which reads "This document is available as a pdf" with a link on that final word, but I think this is still too indirect. The normal reaction to any new language is to download the documentation detailing that language so that it can be read and/or printed at the end-user's leisure.

I agree, the front page needs to be revamped.

> 2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again is downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did not find any such document although there is occasional mention of these diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/cpptod.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/ctod.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/pretod.html

> 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any documentation which I could find about this version and/or its difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.

I agree, but for now, http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html has the information.


> Now I will continue to read on about D at my leisure, and see if I am interested in pursuing my initial interest in it. If I have any general suggestions about the language I hope they will be taken in the spirit of things intended to improve things rather than as an antagonism to the ideas presented there.

No problem. It's good feedback.

Edward Diener wrote:
> 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any documentation which I could find about this version and/or its difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.

You're right, this is sorely needed. I put up a first crude cut of one at:

http://www.digitalmars.com/2.0/features2.html

Correct link:

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/features2.html

Walter Bright wrote:
> Edward Diener wrote:
>> I have a basic initial suggestion, as I am persuing the D pdf dcument I downloaded in order to understand of what the language consisted. The basic suggestion regards documentation for D itself. I believe the most important thing for getting others to be interested in a new programming language is the unglamorous chore of presenting the documentation for that language to others. While the pdf documentation I am reading is adequately thorough, I have a few suggestions:
> 
> I agree with you, but the current problem is that the pdf files need to be manually created, and they fall further and further out of date. What needs to be done is to be able to automatically generate a pdf from the web site source material.

Perhaps some intermediate format like Docbook will allow both HTML and PDF to be generated from the same basic source. Boost uses a BoostBook or better even a QuickBook, although I have encountered endless problems as an end-user building Boost documentation form the SVN latest source tree, but I think this has much more to do with their impenetrable bjam Boost build system than the failings of the Docbook inherited document style.

Just a suggestion to make it easier to generate pdf files for downloading and offline reading.

> 
>> 1) A link to the downloaded documentation for D should be almost the first thing a viewer should see when they click on the D portion of the Digital Mars web site. It should be front and center. I realize there is a separate Language link on the left hand side which takes me to an online set of pages which explain D and I realize that somewhere down on the initial page there is a line which reads "This document is available as a pdf" with a link on that final word, but I think this is still too indirect. The normal reaction to any new language is to download the documentation detailing that language so that it can be read and/or printed at the end-user's leisure.
> 
> I agree, the front page needs to be revamped.
> 
>> 2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again is downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did not find any such document although there is occasional mention of these diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.
> 
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/cpptod.html
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/ctod.html
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/pretod.html

Thanks, others have pointed out to me these links.

I know it is extra work for you but if the main documentation just had an appendix which linked back to places in each section where C++ and D differed ( and in some places I realize it would just say the entire section ) that would be a great boon for C++ programmers interested in D. In your links just above you are not really covering all of the differences and an experienced C++ programmer coming to D would naturally like to skip all of the same areas of the two languages and just learn the differences from the main documentation source.

> 
>> 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any documentation which I could find about this version and/or its difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.
> 
> I agree, but for now, http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html has the information.

OK, I see it. Hopefully you can piece together something better once 2.0 is ready for prime time.

> 
> 
>> Now I will continue to read on about D at my leisure, and see if I am interested in pursuing my initial interest in it. If I have any general suggestions about the language I hope they will be taken in the spirit of things intended to improve things rather than as an antagonism to the ideas presented there.
> 
> No problem. It's good feedback.

There is some more to come, based on specific items, but D is interesting and I sympathize with your goals in creating it.

"Larry" <lawrence.hemsley@gmail.com> wrote in

> I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango reference manual.

:-)

Would you be willing to improve the ref manual?

- Kris

Walter Bright, el 28 de enero a las 14:31 me escribiste:
> Correct link:
> 
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/features2.html

There is a broken link there, where it says "changes that were also made to D 1.0" point to http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.d that get a 404, maybe it should be changelog.html?

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (luca) | Blog colectivo: http://www.mazziblog.com.ar/blog/
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Hey you, dont help them to bury the light
Don't give in without a fight.

Walter Bright wrote:
> Correct link:
> 
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/features2.html

__traits is missing, that's an important one. :)