Jesse Phillips Wrote:

> I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for change. While there are many times that he does finally make changes he was hardily against, "Shown the light" you might say. I believe that he should not only be applauded for putting up with some of the attacks toward him, but that this stone wall helps to clearly define the problem.
> 
> With such strong views coming from both ends, ideas build on each other to provide what could be a much better solution. We still have yet to really see what has come out from the Const stuff, however without such great opposition to it some serious problems my not have been resolved. Many are still unsure of this new direction and there is go reason to be.
> 
> I do not wish to say that Walter is alway correct in his standings, only that it provides a very good buffer to stupid changes that would result in later removal and rabid feature growth that does not need to be there. And I believe even those that become frustrated trying to get a change across no matter how trivial it seems do agree on the benefits from having such a barrier.

amen brother. but somehow no matter what walter does, some people still keep on optimizing for their benefit and never think of not adding to walter's already full plate. walter cranks one release a month. every fucking month there's new stuff. and his reward? he must release twice a month! why? because we don't give a fuck about walter's being busy with a fucking brazillion things already. let him eat cake. shit. say it ain't so, walter!

superdan wrote:
> Jesse Phillips Wrote:
> 
>> I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for change. While there are many times that he does finally make changes he was hardily against, "Shown the light" you might say. I believe that he should not only be applauded for putting up with some of the attacks toward him, but that this stone wall helps to clearly define the problem.
>>
>> With such strong views coming from both ends, ideas build on each other to provide what could be a much better solution. We still have yet to really see what has come out from the Const stuff, however without such great opposition to it some serious problems my not have been resolved. Many are still unsure of this new direction and there is go reason to be.
>>
>> I do not wish to say that Walter is alway correct in his standings, only that it provides a very good buffer to stupid changes that would result in later removal and rabid feature growth that does not need to be there. And I believe even those that become frustrated trying to get a change across no matter how trivial it seems do agree on the benefits from having such a barrier.
> 
> amen brother. but somehow no matter what walter does, some people still keep on optimizing for their benefit and never think of not adding to walter's already full plate. walter cranks one release a month. every fucking month there's new stuff. and his reward? 

> he must release twice a month! why? because we don't give a fuck about walter's being busy with a fucking brazillion things already.. let him eat cake. shit. say it ain't so, walter!

If you're referring to my suggestion of regression-fix releases, I'd gladly take 1 usable release per 4 months over 4 unusable releases over the same 4 months.

--bb

Bill Baxter Wrote:

> superdan wrote:
> > Jesse Phillips Wrote:
> > 
> >> I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for change. While there are many times that he does finally make changes he was hardily against, "Shown the light" you might say. I believe that he should not only be applauded for putting up with some of the attacks toward him, but that this stone wall helps to clearly define the problem.
> >>
> >> With such strong views coming from both ends, ideas build on each other to provide what could be a much better solution. We still have yet to really see what has come out from the Const stuff, however without such great opposition to it some serious problems my not have been resolved. Many are still unsure of this new direction and there is go reason to be.
> >>
> >> I do not wish to say that Walter is alway correct in his standings, only that it provides a very good buffer to stupid changes that would result in later removal and rabid feature growth that does not need to be there. And I believe even those that become frustrated trying to get a change across no matter how trivial it seems do agree on the benefits from having such a barrier.
> > 
> > amen brother. but somehow no matter what walter does, some people still keep on optimizing for their benefit and never think of not adding to walter's already full plate. walter cranks one release a month. every fucking month there's new stuff. and his reward?
> 
> > he must release twice a month! why? because we don't give a fuck about walter's being busy with a fucking brazillion things already.. let him eat cake. shit. say it ain't so, walter!
> 
> If you're referring to my suggestion of regression-fix releases, I'd gladly take 1 usable release per 4 months over 4 unusable releases over the same 4 months.

me too. but being realistic, that was never the case. people give more work to walter so they don't wait one month.

Reply to superdan,

> and his reward? he must
> release twice a month! 

Not commenting on your point, but...

at one point, circa 0.130, Walter /was/ cranking out several versions a month. (OTOH if you count v1 and v2 he still is)

BCS Wrote:

> Reply to superdan,
> 
> > and his reward? he must
> > release twice a month!
> 
> Not commenting on your point, but...
> 
> at one point, circa 0.130, Walter /was/ cranking out several versions a month. (OTOH if you count v1 and v2 he still is)

nice surprise. thought you killfiled me :)

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:59:23 -0400, superdan wrote:

> Jesse Phillips Wrote:
> 
>> I wish to express my gratitude towards Walter for his reluctance for change.

C'mon people! We are all human, with very limited capability of understanding about the wrold spinning around of us. We all have our good & bad sides. Yes, certainly I appropriate Walter just like Linus (Torvals), but both of them can (and are) be occasionally wrong; that doesn't make them not a better nor worse people. And I don't blame not Bright and not Torvalds being wrong or right, it is just the way the things go around :D

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 01:28:04 +0000, Markus Koskimies wrote:

And an addition, which is something I regularly do;

> C'mon people! We are all human, with very limited capability of understanding about the wrold spinning around of us. We all have our good & bad sides. Yes, certainly I appropriate Walter just like Linus (Torvals), but both of them can (and are) be occasionally wrong; that doesn't make them not a better nor worse people. And I don't blame not Bright and not Torvalds being wrong or right, it is just the way the things go around :D

The best we can do is to surround us with brigther(*) people we are. The most important thing is not having resistance; it is all about selecting the direction - you will never please all the people!

(*) Sounds silly in English, I know...

Markus Koskimies wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 01:28:04 +0000, Markus Koskimies wrote:
> 
> And an addition, which is something I regularly do;
> 
>> C'mon people! We are all human, with very limited capability of
>> understanding about the wrold spinning around of us. We all have our
>> good & bad sides. Yes, certainly I appropriate Walter just like Linus
>> (Torvals), but both of them can (and are) be occasionally wrong; that
>> doesn't make them not a better nor worse people. And I don't blame not
>> Bright and not Torvalds being wrong or right, it is just the way the
>> things go around :D
> 
> The best we can do is to surround us with brigther(*) people we are. The most important thing is not having resistance; it is all about selecting the direction - you will never please all the people!

And about staying focused on what's important to keep you moving in that direction... rather than wasting time on the net posting pointless comments.  Kinda like I'm posting now. :-{

> (*) Sounds silly in English, I know...

Doesn't sound silly at all.  Well, it should be "surround ourselves with people brighter than we are", but other than that it sounds fine.  :-)

--bb

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:41:33 +0900, Bill Baxter wrote:
>> (*) Sounds silly in English, I know...
> 
> Doesn't sound silly at all.  Well, it should be "surround ourselves with people brighter than we are", but other than that it sounds fine.  :-)

Walter Bright -> Brigher people -> sounds silly to me, although I'm just a Finnish (and C, C++, assembler) speaking guy.. :blush:

"Markus Koskimies" <markus@reaaliaika.net> wrote in message news:g56i66$1h9i$22@digitalmars.com...
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:41:33 +0900, Bill Baxter wrote:
>>> (*) Sounds silly in English, I know...
>>
>> Doesn't sound silly at all.  Well, it should be "surround ourselves with people brighter than we are", but other than that it sounds fine.  :-)
>
> Walter Bright -> Brigher people -> sounds silly to me, although I'm just a Finnish (and C, C++, assembler) speaking guy.. :blush:

Ahh, I didn't catch the pun either :)