As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more accessible.
I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one of that things could be a forum.

Luca.

Daniel White Wrote:

> Hi all,
> Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
> phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
> the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
> parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
> 
> However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
> 
> To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
> 
> At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
> newsgroup.

I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.

== Quote from Morusaka (morusaka@inwind.it)'s article
> As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more accessible.
> I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one of that things could be a
forum.
> Luca.
> Daniel White Wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
> > phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
> > the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
> > parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
> >
> > However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
> >
> > To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
> >
> > At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
> > newsgroup.

Chad J wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42@skytopia.com> wrote:
>>>> Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
>>>> thing pans out?
>>> Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
>>> would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
>>> (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
>>> in this current system.
>>
>> And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
>> big one for me - remote state.  
> ...
> 
> /remote state/
> 
> YES yes yes.
> 
> This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.

Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Walter Bright Wrote:

> Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

You meant, there *was* no way, right?

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> Chad J wrote:
>>
>> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42@skytopia.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?
>>>>
>>>> Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
>>>
>>> And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> /remote state/
>>
>> YES yes yes.
>>
>> This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.
>
> Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Have you used a web forum?  They show you precisely what you have and haven't read.

Sean Kelly Wrote:

> I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.

I think you may be right. Apparently, there is (or was) a massive division between the ASP.net forum and the official Microsoft ASP newsgroup.

In the end, it would seem the primary advantages of newsgroups over forums are speed and offline reading. As time progresses, I'm guessing the second problem will be reduced greatly, and the first problem shouldn't even be an issue, but somehow is.

I know that many phpBB-style forums (including phpBB) feel slothful to post, refresh and generally navigate. It's almost as though they're crawling over an encrypted https connection.

There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Daniel White wrote:

> Sean Kelly Wrote:
> 
>> I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.


> There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.

I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
skype: derek.j.parnell

Hi Derek,
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were
a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB,
actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also
was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard
forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you
potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are
intrinsic to forums per se.

In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that forums offer?

Dan
Derek Parnell Wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Daniel White wrote:
> 
> > Sean Kelly Wrote:
> > 
> >> I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.
> 
> 
> > There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.
> 
> I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure.
> 
> -- 
> Derek Parnell
> Melbourne, Australia
> skype: derek.j.parnell

To be honest, this 'Web-News' system is almost quite good, since
it acts in many ways like a forum does. The only thing which bothers
me is not being able to view all posts in a single thread on one page.
I need to click each child to read further.

Also code formatting, and proper quoting would be nice :D


Walter Bright Wrote:

> Daniel White wrote:
> > To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? - if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
> 
> http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums. I signed up for it, but their server rejects my attempts to use Thunderbird's newsgroup reader on it, so I can't vouch for it actually working.

> and - the big one for me - remote state

Is it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New"
section at:
http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D

This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly.

Dan

Jarrett Billingsley Wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42@skytopia.com> wrote:
> >> Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out?
> >
> > Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
> 
> And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.  I have two computers, one of which is dual-booted, and I use lab computers as well.  A newsreader client does _not_ work for me.  GMail + mailing lists is _okay_ but I'd really prefer something that was really made for this kind of discussion.
> 
> >> What about dsource?
> >
> > Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for newcomers to miss.
> >
> > Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?
> 
> The other problem with the dsource forum is that next to no one uses it.  Notice the most recent post on there is from over a month ago.
> 
> It would be great to have a unified interface.