Daniel White wrote:
> Hi all,
> Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
> phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
> the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
> parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
> 
> However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
> to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
> posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
> 
> To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
> software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
> system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
> the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
> if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
> 
> At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
> newsgroup.

Maybe we just need a better web-news? I looked on sourceforge, and it doesn't seem like web-news is being updated, and there aren't too many great alternatives.

If there was one where you could register ()optionally - you should also be able to use it without registration), you could use that feature to save state (viewed posts), and give it whatever interface you like. A talented web programmer could even add in some AJAX-y stuff so it would notify you of new posts.

Walter Bright wrote:
> Chad J wrote:
>> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42@skytopia.com> wrote:
>>>>> Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
>>>>> thing pans out?
>>>> Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
>>>> would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
>>>> (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
>>>> in this current system.
>>>
>>> And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
>>> big one for me - remote state.  
>> ...
>>
>> /remote state/
>>
>> YES yes yes.
>>
>> This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.
> 
> Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts.

Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.

Mike Parker wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> Chad J wrote:
>>> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42@skytopia.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
>>>>>> thing pans out?
>>>>> Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum
>>>>> would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages
>>>>> (better quoting, and image support) - something not available
>>>>> in this current system.
>>>>
>>>> And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the
>>>> big one for me - remote state.  
>>> ...
>>>
>>> /remote state/
>>>
>>> YES yes yes.
>>>
>>> This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.
>>
>> Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.
> 
> Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts.
> 
> Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.

[1] http://www.simplemachines.org/

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Mike Parker wrote:

> Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.

Subscribe your gmail account to the mailing list and that'd allow you to stop using thunderbird.

   http://lists.puremagic.com/

Later,
Brad

Brad Roberts wrote:
> For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.  I

In my case, it seems wasteful to use a newsreader just to check the D ngs. I do everything from my browser except checking these newsgroups. I check all of my email accounts through gmail, I visit half a dozen programming forums, I check reddit for interesting stuff, and so on. If it weren't for these D newsgroups, I'd have no reason to open Thunderbird anymore.

In fact, before picking up D I hadn't used a newsgroup reader in years and didn't miss it a bit.

> already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums by me would require an automatic email gateway.
> 

Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright
>>> This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.
>> Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another
>> problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly
>> scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what
>> you've read and what you haven't.
> 
> Have you used a web forum?  They show you precisely what you have and
> haven't read.

Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)

Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of
> shit.  It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface
> itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't
> thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's
> just broken in some areas.  For example, if you are on any board other
> than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you
> to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.

Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)

No no, those aren't forums.  Those are more or less glorified threaded comments.  I'm talking about actual bulletin-board forum software - phpBB, YaBB, SMF, etc.  Like the kind at dsource.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Walter Bright <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>
>> The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of shit.  It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's just broken in some areas.  For example, if you are on any board other than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.
>
> Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?

None that I know of, and from some of the other replies the chances seem slim.

It sounds hackish but perhaps something could be set up through the mailing lists.  They seem to handle things very nicely and have archives back to at least the beginning of 2006.  The archives are also auto-threaded.  I'm sure it wouldn't take long to set up a few simple pages - or even to modify the mailing list archive viewers - to allow sending NG messages as well as viewing them.

Walter Bright wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright
>>>> This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.
>>> Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another
>>> problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly
>>> scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what
>>> you've read and what you haven't.
>>
>> Have you used a web forum?  They show you precisely what you have and
>> haven't read.
> 
> Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)

Some boards like the company I work for's "League of Lengends" community forum (forums.leagueoflegends.com) have several pages which makes it easier to find unread threads.  Also if there is a new post to the thread, that thread is moved to the top and marked as unread again.  Not quite what your asking for but pretty close.

-Joel