On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:39:11 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:

> On 1/11/11 6:29 AM, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>> Hi Andrei,
>>
>> It looks nice. Just a small comment: in many of your comments you use words that
>> not all of us might now. For instance: "sans". I happen to know it because I
>> studied French, but otherwise I wouldn't know that. I just showed that phrase to a
>> colleague here in Argentina and he didn't understand it. He thought it maybe meant
>> "since". Maybe "sans" and "in lieu" are memes there in the USA, but not
>> everywhere. So please, stick with English. :-)
>
> Okay. I think "sans" is Walter's...

sans is in the english dictionary:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sans

According to that reference, Shakespeare used it :)  Don't think you can get more English than that...

BTW, it would be impossible to phrase everything so everyone who has their specific dialect of English would understand it, I don't think there's much sense in worrying about it.

That being said, using 'without' instead of 'sans' is probably fine.

-Steve

"Andrei Alexandrescu" <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote in message news:igi18o$e5e$2@digitalmars.com...
> On 1/11/11 6:34 AM, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>> Oh, one more thing: can the names be consistent?
>>
>> inpattern
>> countChars
>> expandtabs
>> chompPrefix
>> toupper
>> toupperInPlace ??
>>
>> If this can't be done for backwards compatibility maybe you can make
>> alias for the
>> previous ones.
>
> The names are for compatibility with... other languages :o|.
>

Would that other language be Walterish or C?

If C, it's not like using the wrong case will suddendly change the semantics of the function. And if the worry is other non-phobos functions that might have the old C-style name (but different semantics), then Ary's suggestion of compatibly-named alases would take care of that.

"Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:op.vo5kspmfeav7ka@steve-laptop...
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:39:11 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/11/11 6:29 AM, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>
>>> It looks nice. Just a small comment: in many of your comments you use
>>> words that
>>> not all of us might now. For instance: "sans". I happen to know it
>>> because I
>>> studied French, but otherwise I wouldn't know that. I just showed that
>>> phrase to a
>>> colleague here in Argentina and he didn't understand it. He thought it
>>> maybe meant
>>> "since". Maybe "sans" and "in lieu" are memes there in the USA, but not
>>> everywhere. So please, stick with English. :-)
>>
>> Okay. I think "sans" is Walter's...
>
> sans is in the english dictionary:
>
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sans
>
> According to that reference, Shakespeare used it :)  Don't think you can get more English than that...
>

Thoust words are true.

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure a lot of native english speakers don't know "sans" either, unless they're familiar with font-related terminology. "In lieu of" is widely-known though, at least in the US.

Am 11.01.2011 19:07, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:
> Thoust words are true.
>
> Seriously though, I'm pretty sure a lot of native english speakers don't
> know "sans" either, unless they're familiar with font-related terminology.
> "In lieu of" is widely-known though, at least in the US.
>
>

I'm neither representative nor a native speaker (I'm german) and I knew sans, but didn't know "In lieu of".

"Daniel Gibson" <metalcaedes@gmail.com> wrote in message news:igi6n5$27pv$1@digitalmars.com...
> Am 11.01.2011 19:07, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:
>> Thoust words are true.
>>
>> Seriously though, I'm pretty sure a lot of native english speakers don't
>> know "sans" either, unless they're familiar with font-related
>> terminology.
>> "In lieu of" is widely-known though, at least in the US.
>>
>>
>
> I'm neither representative nor a native speaker (I'm german) and I knew sans, but didn't know "In lieu of".

I guess that just goes to show, we should all just switch to Esperanto ;)

On 01/11/2011 04:11 PM, Max Samukha wrote:
> Anyway, the necessity for super-cryptic abbreviated names doesn't exist
> any more. Maybe, they are justified for very frequently used stuff but
> stripl/stripr is not the case.

+++
Standard names should all be as obvious as possible. Then, everyone is free to alias stripLeft & stripRight to sl & sr ;-) But standard lib should be super clear code; show the right example of what clarity means --not the opposite!
And I ask again: what to do with all inherited junk breaking naming rules like uint, size_t, malloc...?

Denis
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com

"Max Samukha" <spambox@d-coding.com> wrote in message news:ighvca$api$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 01/11/2011 05:36 PM, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>> Yes, what I meant was that the names are stripl and stripr yet the
>> description of
>> those functions are strip leading and strip trailing... at least put
>> strip left
>> and string right on the description so it matches the names.
>
> Sorry for misunderstanding.
>
> I don't think that the description needs to match the names literally. However, I would aviod "trailing" and "leading", because in RTL environments they can have the opposite meaning.

I would have thought RTL languages got stored as RTL. If so, then "leading" and "trailing" would be correct and "left"/"right" would be wrong (unless the internal behavior of stripl and stripr takes language-direction into account, which would surprise me).

On 12/01/11 05:07, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> "Steven Schveighoffer"<schveiguy@yahoo.com>  wrote in message
> news:op.vo5kspmfeav7ka@steve-laptop...
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:39:11 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu
>> <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/11/11 6:29 AM, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>>>> Hi Andrei,
>>>>
>>>> It looks nice. Just a small comment: in many of your comments you use
>>>> words that
>>>> not all of us might now. For instance: "sans". I happen to know it
>>>> because I
>>>> studied French, but otherwise I wouldn't know that. I just showed that
>>>> phrase to a
>>>> colleague here in Argentina and he didn't understand it. He thought it
>>>> maybe meant
>>>> "since". Maybe "sans" and "in lieu" are memes there in the USA, but not
>>>> everywhere. So please, stick with English. :-)
>>>
>>> Okay. I think "sans" is Walter's...
>>
>> sans is in the english dictionary:
>>
>> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sans
>>
>> According to that reference, Shakespeare used it :)  Don't think you can
>> get more English than that...
>>
>
> Thoust words are true.

As an aside you might find some amusement in "The Shakespeare Programming Language"

http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/report/shakespeare/

On 01/11/2011 07:14 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> "Daniel Gibson"<metalcaedes@gmail.com>  wrote in message
> news:igi6n5$27pv$1@digitalmars.com...
>> Am 11.01.2011 19:07, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:
>>> Thoust words are true.
>>>
>>> Seriously though, I'm pretty sure a lot of native english speakers don't
>>> know "sans" either, unless they're familiar with font-related
>>> terminology.
>>> "In lieu of" is widely-known though, at least in the US.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm neither representative nor a native speaker (I'm german) and I knew
>> sans, but didn't know "In lieu of".
>
> I guess that just goes to show, we should all just switch to Esperanto ;)

No, esperanto is just a heap of language-design errors!


Denis
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com

On 01/11/2011 07:01 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> The names are for compatibility with... other languages :o|.
>> >
> Would that other language be Walterish or C?
>
> If C, it's not like using the wrong case will suddendly change the semantics
> of the function. And if the worry is other non-phobos functions that might
> have the old C-style name (but different semantics), then Ary's suggestion
> of compatibly-named alases would take care of that.

Agreed, Ary's suggestion makes much sense.
Anyway, when shall we endly get rid of half-a-century-old naming issues? In the XXIInd century?


Denis
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com