Jump to page: 1 216  
Page
Thread overview
D has become unbearable and it needs to stop
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jul 04
RazvanN
Jul 05
harakim
Jul 05
harakim
Jul 06
harakim
Jun 08
Dukc
Jun 08
Johan
Jun 15
Johan
Jun 08
Sergey
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 08
bachmeier
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 08
mw
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 10
monkyyy
Jun 10
GrimMaple
Jun 10
GrimMaple
Jun 11
GrimMaple
Jun 09
GrimMaple
Jun 09
GrimMaple
Jun 09
Martyn
Jun 09
GrimMaple
Jun 09
IGotD-
Jun 10
monkyyy
Jun 15
Martyn
Jun 17
monkyyy
Jun 19
Martyn
Jun 19
RazvanN
Jun 19
Martyn
Jun 19
bachmeier
Jun 19
Martyn
Jun 19
Martyn
Jun 19
bachmeier
Jun 20
monkyyy
Jun 18
Dany12L
Jun 18
Hipreme
Jun 18
Dany12L
Jun 18
Hipreme
Jun 19
Dany12L
Jun 08
bachmeier
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 08
bachmeier
Jun 08
Dennis
Jun 08
IGotD-
Jun 08
GrimMaple
Jun 08
mw
Jun 09
ryuukk_
Jun 08
Hipreme
Jun 11
mate
Jun 12
Johan
Jun 12
bachmeier
Jun 12
Martyn
Jun 13
Ki Rill
Jun 13
deadalnix
Jun 13
Martyn
Jun 13
Basile B.
Jun 13
GrimMaple
Jun 13
Hipreme
Jun 13
Martyn
Jun 16
claptrap
Jun 15
BlueBeach
Jun 14
zjh
Jun 14
zjh
Jun 30
Z3Solver
Jun 30
Z3Solver
Jul 02
Dukc
Jul 03
GrimMaple
Jul 03
GrimMaple
Jul 03
Sergey
June 08

I usually try to stay more silent (on the form at least), but I think I reached my boiling point. I've been a (self employed) full time D developer for almost 2 years now, developing quite a large codebase of personal closed source projects, as well as adopting some 3rdparty code like dlangui. And my life has become particularly miserable in the last half a year or so.

I wish I was exaggerating, but every new DMD version breaks some of my code, to a smaller or bigger extent. It can be either my own code, or dependency code, but I started drowning in deprecation messages or outright breakage. It's nearly impossible to develop any reasonable 3rdparty in those conditions. I'm tired of fixing things that weren't broken. And I can't even imagine having to support multiple branches of code because of those deprecations. But I probably should, as, periodically, I get issues that dlangui can't compile with some outdated dmd version. It's just insane!

Recently, some of the changes resulted in direct API changes. This is unacceptable, as it, basically, forces people to update major versions and split the codebase between "before" and "after". Also forcing them to support two version of the same thing.

There have been a lot of talk about Gripes, about the "Vision" of D... But more than half a year passed, and yet the breakage only gets worse, and nothing seems to be improving. At least in regards of LTS. And with no proper LTS, no proper 3rd-party can exist.

So, as pissed as I am, please, for the love of everything, stop breaking D. I understand the desire to improve the language, but can you understand the desire to just... write working code? Please, make D at least somewhat stable.

June 08

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 13:38:20 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

I usually try to stay more silent (on the form at least), but I think I reached my boiling point. I've been a (self employed) full time D developer for almost 2 years now, developing quite a large codebase of personal closed source projects, as well as adopting some 3rdparty code like dlangui. And my life has become particularly miserable in the last half a year or so.

I wish I was exaggerating, but every new DMD version breaks some of my code, to a smaller or bigger extent.

Can't confirm. Can you give some examples, please? In my experience (and we maintain a lot of D code), serious new breakage (not an existing bug) is pretty rare.

To be fair, we don't use that many external libs though.

June 08

On 6/8/23 9:38 AM, GrimMaple wrote:

>

I usually try to stay more silent (on the form at least), but I think I reached my boiling point. I've been a (self employed) full time D developer for almost 2 years now, developing quite a large codebase of personal closed source projects, as well as adopting some 3rdparty code like dlangui. And my life has become particularly miserable in the last half a year or so.

I wish I was exaggerating, but every new DMD version breaks some of my code, to a smaller or bigger extent. It can be either my own code, or dependency code, but I started drowning in deprecation messages or outright breakage. It's nearly impossible to develop any reasonable 3rdparty in those conditions. I'm tired of fixing things that weren't broken. And I can't even imagine having to support multiple branches of code because of those deprecations. But I probably should, as, periodically, I get issues that dlangui can't compile with some outdated dmd version. It's just insane!

I'm not saying your wrong or arguing with you, but you need to give specific examples. We can do nothing about general nebulous problems.

I know about the deprecation messages from DIP1000, I don't like those either (deprecation messages for my vibe-d project went from like 5 (that are my fault) to 20,000).

-Steve

June 08

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 14:08:05 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:

>

On 6/8/23 9:38 AM, GrimMaple wrote:
I know about the deprecation messages from DIP1000, I don't like those either (deprecation messages for my vibe-d project went from like 5 (that are my fault) to 20,000).

-Steve

I think Grim meant this one: https://twitter.com/grim_maple/status/1666783261144522753?s=46&t=fQTa8qEB1aBjOkD2ftKKbA

Also another user mentioned previously about __traits(getAttributes) deprecation and problems with dyaml package

June 08

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 13:38:20 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

So, as pissed as I am, please, for the love of everything, stop breaking D. I understand the desire to improve the language, but can you understand the desire to just... write working code? Please, make D at least somewhat stable.

The solution is simple - LTS release that will only get critical updates. Would you pay someone to manage that? I am sure D Language Foundation would accept donation(s) towards that goal.

June 08

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 13:38:20 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

There have been a lot of talk about Gripes, about the "Vision" of D... But more than half a year passed, and yet the breakage only gets worse, and nothing seems to be improving. At least in regards of LTS. And with no proper LTS, no proper 3rd-party can exist.

My opinion is that this is a coordination problem. If you label a release every couple of years as LTS, no matter which one it is, anyone needing stability can write their code for the LTS release, and anyone needing to compile code will have the LTS release installed.

June 08

On 6/8/23 10:15 AM, Sergey wrote:

>

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 14:08:05 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:

>

On 6/8/23 9:38 AM, GrimMaple wrote:
I know about the deprecation messages from DIP1000, I don't like those either (deprecation messages for my vibe-d project went from like 5 (that are my fault) to 20,000).

I think Grim meant this one: https://twitter.com/grim_maple/status/1666783261144522753?s=46&t=fQTa8qEB1aBjOkD2ftKKbA

That's a segfault bug in the compiler, not an intentional language issue.

I would love to ensure that every release of the compiler doesn't have any bugs, please let me know when you have figured out how to guarantee that.

>

Also another user mentioned previously about __traits(getAttributes) deprecation and problems with dyaml package

This I am interested in seeing, have a link?

-Steve

June 08

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 14:20:18 UTC, Dejan Lekic wrote:

>

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 13:38:20 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

So, as pissed as I am, please, for the love of everything, stop breaking D. I understand the desire to improve the language, but can you understand the desire to just... write working code? Please, make D at least somewhat stable.

The solution is simple - LTS release that will only get critical updates. Would you pay someone to manage that? I am sure D Language Foundation would accept donation(s) towards that goal.

What's a "critical update" for a compiler? A compiler is not a web browser.

June 08

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 13:54:53 UTC, FeepingCreature wrote:

>

Can't confirm. Can you give some examples, please? In my experience (and we maintain a lot of D code), serious new breakage (not an existing bug) is pretty rare.

To be fair, we don't use that many external libs though.

2.104 deprecated ref in, this changes function signatures (Adam was particularly displeased with having to push breaking changes).
2.103 deprecated alias this on classes, which resulted in complete code breakage. This lad https://github.com/FreeSlave/icontheme/issues/2 even refused to do anything about it.
2.102 deprecated __traits(getAttributes). Somebody complained about this, but I can't remember who exactly. Probably Adam again.
2.101 removed std.xml, which led to a significant rewrite of dlangui, which inevitably led to me leaving D (even though temporarily). And no, undeaD maintainers refused to fix my problems: https://github.com/dlang/undeaD/pull/54 , https://github.com/buggins/dlangui/issues/643 (tl;dr undeaD doesn't work with GDC)

Other versions go too far back for my memory

June 08

On Thursday, 8 June 2023 at 13:38:20 UTC, GrimMaple wrote:

>

I wish I was exaggerating, but every new DMD version breaks some of my code, to a smaller or bigger extent. It can be either my own code, or dependency code, but I started drowning in deprecation messages or outright breakage.

If they are public, perhaps they are good inclusions to buildkite:

https://github.com/dlang/ci/blob/master/buildkite.sh

Projects on buildkite get their test suite run on every dmd pull request, so breakage can be prevented early.

« First   ‹ Prev
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11