On 14/03/11 04.33, dsimcha wrote:
> On 3/13/2011 5:56 PM, Jonas Drewsen wrote:
>> It's a great idea. But I think there need to be some kind of janitor for
>> the 'etc' modules so that it does not end up as a new dsource collection
>> of many unmaintained, some dead and a few live projects.
>
> I don't see why this is a concern. This is what I have in mind:
>
> 1. There are a lot of good C libraries out there, some of which are
> generally useful enough to be in a standard library and are license
> compatible with Phobos. My thoughts are that we would only include very
> stable C libs that are unlikely to require significant maintenance
> effort. My personal short list is libcurl (looks like it's already
> happening), SQLite, libpng, and, if we can get a binary attribution
> clause waiver, libbzip2.
>
> 2. The hassle of compiling the C code, translating the header, etc. is a
> significant and annoying transaction cost that probably deters people
> from writing good D wrappers and leads to lots of duplication of effort
> among people who are kinda sorta considering writing one.
>
> 3. Even if someone doesn't intend to write a wrapper initially, they may
> start using the C API directly and eventually end up refactoring out a
> good wrapper from the project that uses the C API. This is more likely
> if the C API is already there, waiting to be used.
>
> 4. Even if a D wrapper is not written for a long time, having the plain
> C API available for those that want to use it is substantially better
> than nothing, and the C API will not go away once a D wrapper is written.

Maybe I'm too concerned yes. Would just hate to have new users using bit rotten code because no one suddently cared about a specific module for a while.

But maybe curl,png,sqlite etc. libraries are used enough so that someone always cares keeping it up-to-dat and this does not become a problem. Lets see :)

/Jonas

On Monday 14 March 2011 02:24:45 Jonas Drewsen wrote:
> On 14/03/11 00.07, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 March 2011 14:56:34 Jonas Drewsen wrote:
> >> On 13/03/11 18.29, dsimcha wrote:
> >>> One of the features I miss most in Phobos is support for SQLite. Several people have written bindings and wrappers and haven't gotten much attention. (For example: https://github.com/bayun/SQLite3-D ).
> >>> 
> >>> IMHO, we should do the following:
> >>> 
> >>> 1. Put SQLite bindings and the C code (which is public domain) in etc.c, just like zlib now. Put it in the docs, etc. to make sure people know it's there. This will lower the barrier to entry for people who want to make wrappers. These can probably be included without any review, since they're a pile of well-tested C code and a fairly mechanical translation of a header file.
> >>> 
> >>> 2. Encourage people to make wrappers **after** the C code and bindings are already "just there", ready to be used. With the barrier to entry lowered, we might actually get someone who's serious enough about it to take it through the whole review process, etc., rather than just dumping a quick n' dirty post to the forum and then forgetting about it.
> >> 
> >> It's a great idea. But I think there need to be some kind of janitor for the 'etc' modules so that it does not end up as a new dsource collection of many unmaintained, some dead and a few live projects.
> >> 
> >> Btw. are there any kind of automated nightly builds of dmd/phobos to handle regressions?
> > 
> > http://d.puremagic.com/test-results/
> > 
> > - Jonathan M Davis
> 
> Very nice. Is this you own build setup or an official one?

No. That's the official autotester. Brad Roberts manages it. It's expanded quite a bit recently. FreeBSD and OSX are _very_ recent, and 64-bit Linux is fairly recent.

- Jonathan M Davis

On 3/13/11 11:54 PM, Jesse Phillips wrote:
> libcurl, SQLite, libpng, libbzip2, and the WindowsAPI stuff all sound like Excellent items to include for standard distribution. It is really nice to just have these items available like zlib and zip.
>
> Personally I think Lua would make a nice standard extension language, but the license is MIT.
>
> So if the Phobos devs are willing, lets git some of these in.

I'm not seeing the pull requests yet. :o)

Andrei

Hello all,

"Jesse Phillips" <jessekphillips+D@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ilk728$gk0$1@digitalmars.com...
> libcurl, SQLite, libpng, libbzip2, and the WindowsAPI stuff all sound like
> Excellent items to include for standard distribution. It is really nice to
> just
> have these items available like zlib and zip.
>
> Personally I think Lua would make a nice standard extension language, but
> the
> license is MIT.
>
> So if the Phobos devs are willing, lets git some of these in.

I have started D bindings for Tcl, I volunteer to support them. https://github.com/nedbrek/tcld

Tcl uses a BSD-like license (which might keep it out the standard D library...)

Ned

On 15/03/11 01.33, nedbrek wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> "Jesse Phillips"<jessekphillips+D@gmail.com>  wrote in message
> news:ilk728$gk0$1@digitalmars.com...
>> libcurl, SQLite, libpng, libbzip2, and the WindowsAPI stuff all sound like
>> Excellent items to include for standard distribution. It is really nice to
>> just
>> have these items available like zlib and zip.
>>
>> Personally I think Lua would make a nice standard extension language, but
>> the
>> license is MIT.
>>
>> So if the Phobos devs are willing, lets git some of these in.
>
> I have started D bindings for Tcl, I volunteer to support them.
> https://github.com/nedbrek/tcld
>
> Tcl uses a BSD-like license (which might keep it out the standard D
> library...)
>
> Ned

Regarding the licensing issues... maybe an officially "blessed" library (libphobos-ext) could be made for all the things that does not go well with the boost license then? A bit messy but it would open up access to a great number of libs with a default dmd + phobos + phobos-ext installation.

I guess BSD/MIT/lgpl etc. licenses are permissive enough for almost every case anyway.

/Jonas

On 2011-03-15 10:30, Jonas Drewsen wrote:
> On 15/03/11 01.33, nedbrek wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> "Jesse Phillips"<jessekphillips+D@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ilk728$gk0$1@digitalmars.com...
>>> libcurl, SQLite, libpng, libbzip2, and the WindowsAPI stuff all sound
>>> like
>>> Excellent items to include for standard distribution. It is really
>>> nice to
>>> just
>>> have these items available like zlib and zip.
>>>
>>> Personally I think Lua would make a nice standard extension language,
>>> but
>>> the
>>> license is MIT.
>>>
>>> So if the Phobos devs are willing, lets git some of these in.
>>
>> I have started D bindings for Tcl, I volunteer to support them.
>> https://github.com/nedbrek/tcld
>>
>> Tcl uses a BSD-like license (which might keep it out the standard D
>> library...)
>>
>> Ned
>
> Regarding the licensing issues... maybe an officially "blessed" library
> (libphobos-ext) could be made for all the things that does not go well
> with the boost license then? A bit messy but it would open up access to
> a great number of libs with a default dmd + phobos + phobos-ext
> installation.
>
> I guess BSD/MIT/lgpl etc. licenses are permissive enough for almost
> every case anyway.
>
> /Jonas

You can always just include bindings to the library. Then the user needs to have the library on the system if the users decides to use the bindings.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg