Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

> Ha! I may not need to do much after all: I was just looking through Wikipedia's giant list of browsers, found a few that looked potentially promising, tried them all and...well, was mostly disappointed. But the *last* one I had left to try I've been really impressed with so far:
> 
> Arora (Qt/WebKit)
> http://code.google.com/p/arora/

Tried it too. May be, it's a webkit bug, but sometimes it wraps text incorrectly.

On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 01:06:26 +0200
Matthias Pleh <jens@konrad.net> wrote:

> I think other companies will have similar decision. So, I think, to help D to get more accepted in the buisiness world, one requirement would be a good GUI library.

Coming from the Haskell I can say that e.g. gtk2hs bindings provide quite a nice higher-level API (using Haskell style) on top of low-level C API provided by GTK+.

Same thing can be done for e.g. QtD instead of spending time creating something from the scratch.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
“In the material world, conceptions of good and bad are all mental speculations…” (Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu)

http://atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

On 2011-04-04 23:27, Matthias Pleh wrote:
> was: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian
>
> To preventing losing this thread, I have created a new one ...
> Additional, I've added a license column on the GuiLibraries-table on the
> wiki.
>
> So, let me summarize my thoughts, why I think a good Gui library is
> important for the D community.
> I'm working for an enginge builder company. Our product is mainly
> mechanical, but also has a software part, which is created and
> maintained by a 16 (and growing) man team. Our softwareproduct is mainly
> server-side and timecritical, written in C++/MFC and very old. We've
> decided to create it new from scratch. As a member of the design team of
> this new project I've tried to inturoduce D for this. But it was
> impossible to assure the others. The main counter-argument was the lack
> of a good D-Gui library, though the main part is serverside, but the
> client-side GUI have to be written in the same language.
>
> This were the requirments for the GUI library:
> - Corss-platform (Win/linux)
> - not just a port, but adjusted to the language
> - mostly written in this language, so you can easy debug the lib,
> this means no wrapper library, just system libraries
> (Though gtk+ on linux would hold as a system library so GtkD for linux
> would be OK, but not on Windows!
> - obviously suitable license for a commercial product
>
> Unfortunately All known GUI-libraries for D fails on this requirments
> So the choice has fallen to C++/Qt

Why is C++/Qt good enough but not D/Qt ?

> I would like to fill this gap and create a really good D GUI library
>
> Any thoughts, comments ... ?
>
>
> °Matthias


-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2011-04-05 01:16, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On 2011-04-04 15:41, Matthias Pleh wrote:
>> Am 05.04.2011 00:14, schrieb Daniel Gibson:
>>> Maybe your company could help the DWT or QtD guys?
>>> Getting something stable out of that would most probably not take as
>>> long as developing your own cross-platform GUI toolkit.
>>> Furthermore many people are already familiar with SWT and Qt, so they
>>> wouldn't have to learn another toolkit for D.
>>
>> You have missed the point. For our company the decision is made. We
>> already use C++/Qt now.
>> But I really like the D programming language and I use it for all my
>> private projects. So I think, we, as the D community, should create a
>> modern D GUI library entirely written in D.
>
> Feel free to do that if you want, but I think that most people around here
> would agree that your time would be better spent improving the existing GUI
> toolkit bindings - such as qtd or dwt. A _lot_ of time and effort goes into
> making a truly solid and complete GUI toolkit. Why duplicate all of that work?
> There's just too much else that needs to be done for D. And even if we _want_
> duplicate that work with a GUI toolkit which is completely written in D, you'd
> need a large team to develop it properly. And given the general difficulties
> in getting contributors for the various major D projects, I rather doubt that
> you're going to manage that.
>
> So, do whatever you want, but I really don't think that developing a new GUI
> toolkit for D is really the best use of your time. There's plenty of other
> stuff that needs doing which would be of greater value.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

I completely agree. Qt has been around since 1992 and SWT since the 1990s, starting as a toolkit for smalltalk. They both have come very far in their development.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2011-04-05 01:41, Michel Fortin wrote:
> On 2011-04-04 17:27:05 -0400, Matthias Pleh <jens@konrad.net> said:
>
>> I would like to fill this gap and create a really good D GUI library
>>
>> Any thoughts, comments ... ?
>
> Just an observation...
>
> Cross platform libraries are fine, but they generally aren't very great
> either. They'll always stretch in one way or another the standard way to
> do things when put on a given platform. The end result will almost
> always look substandard when using that library in the environment it
> was not primarily designed for.

If you use the cross platform library for most of the application and then use the native libraries to add details and further customize the application I think it can look pretty good.

> On the other hand, one thing that is missing right now, in D and in most
> languages, is a standard way to display graphics. By that I mean if we
> had in Phobos a module that could just open a window and let you draw
> things in it, it'd make learning programming much more fun and it'd be
> useful for rapid prototyping of anything that involves graphics. It
> doesn't need to be complicated -- it doesn't even need to have a GUI --
> just drawing things and viewing them somewhere on a screen would be
> great. Later on you can add click support, full screen mode and other
> features if deemed useful, but the goal would never be provide bindings
> for every piece of GUI on all platforms.
>
> So my observation is that a cross platform full-featured GUI will always
> fail somewhere (mostly where those platforms differs) whereas a cross
> platform drawing module with display capabilities is much more
> universally useful, is more easily approachable, and is much less code
> to maintain.
>


-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On 2011-04-05 03:36, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> "Daniel Gibson"<metalcaedes@gmail.com>  wrote in message
> news:inddni$kmi$3@digitalmars.com...
>>
>> I don't know if wee need yet another GUI library.
>> Are you sure Qt and DWT aren't good enough?
>>
>
> AIUI:
>
> DWT doesn't support D2 (neither does wxD).

The Windows port now works with D2. Working on the Linux port.

> QtD requires a patched DMD, MinGW (which is fucking god-awful), and cmake (I
> have to let some variant of "make" touch my computer? Why can't we just let
> make die?). And it requires running your code through a preprocessor.
>
> And none of those have actual API documentation, they just refer to the
> C/C++ docs. I use D because I never want to look at another line of C++ as
> long as I live.

SWT is written in Java :)

> Everything else is either non-native or non-cross-platform.
>
> The state of GUIs in D right now is pretty awful, unfortunately. My plate's
> already overpacked (think: teenager at a one-trip buffet), but maybe I'll
> see if I can squeeze in enough extra time (hah! there's a concept I've
> completely lost all memory of) to try to help out on something. After all, I
> *really* want to get around to making my own web browser (based off either
> Mozilla or Chromium) - I'm getting really fed up with the current state of
> available web browsers. Well, and the web as a whole (god I fucking hate the
> web), but one step at a time, I guess).
>
>


-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

"Jacob Carlborg" <doob@me.com> wrote in message news:inen8g$2cec$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 2011-04-05 03:36, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> "Daniel Gibson"<metalcaedes@gmail.com>  wrote in message news:inddni$kmi$3@digitalmars.com...
>>>
>>> I don't know if wee need yet another GUI library.
>>> Are you sure Qt and DWT aren't good enough?
>>>
>>
>> AIUI:
>>
>> DWT doesn't support D2 (neither does wxD).
>
> The Windows port now works with D2. Working on the Linux port.
>

Yea, I just saw another post mentioning that. That's awesome :)

>> QtD requires a patched DMD, MinGW (which is fucking god-awful), and cmake
>> (I
>> have to let some variant of "make" touch my computer? Why can't we just
>> let
>> make die?). And it requires running your code through a preprocessor.
>>
>> And none of those have actual API documentation, they just refer to the
>> C/C++ docs. I use D because I never want to look at another line of C++
>> as
>> long as I live.
>
> SWT is written in Java :)
>

Oh yea, that's right :)

On 04/05/2011 06:13 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> Michel Fortin wrote:
>> It would also be nice to be able to load an image from a file, but
>> that's a little more complicated.
>
> I have some .bmp and .png loading written up too. Doesn't implement
> every feature of either format, but enough to get by.
>
>  From my program:
>
> import arsd.bmp;
> void main() {
>         auto i = new BMP("lol.bmp"); // loading from file
>
>         i.display(); // display it to the screen
> }
>
> Alternatively, make one with arrays:
>
> void main() {
>       auto i = new Image(255, 255);
>       for(int b = 0; b<  h; b++)
>       for(int a = 0; a<  w; a++)
> 	i.setPixel(a,b,Color(255,a,0)); // truecolor
>
>       i.display();
> }
>
>
>
> You can also write out to a file or to a memory array (should
> probably be some kind of lazy range). When combined with cgi.d,
> that means you can output images to the web browser like so:
>
> http://arsdnet.net/cgi-bin/gradient?h=100&w=100&c1=ff0000&c2=00ff00
>
> No need for external libraries - my png read/write is homegrown in
> D. (which is why it doesn't implement the full standard, but it's
> also much smaller and simpler to use than something that does)
>
>
> It doesn't offer much for drawing - it's just a memory array
> and a few of my ancient DOS routines ported over, but it's a start.
>
> I'll see about cleaning it up for a release next chance I get.

What about having just one image type (pixmap) and allowing its initialisation from files of various formats:
    auto i = new Image(BMP, "lol.bmp");
?

Denis
-- 
_________________
vita es estrany
spir.wikidot.com

Am 05.04.2011 10:43, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:
>
> Why is C++/Qt good enough but not D/Qt ?

As I mentioned before, I could live with such a solution.
When we decided our strategy one year ago, QtD was far away from ready but gtkD was already usable and stable. I was the one how recommend the use of D/gtkD. But there exist developers and manager, who _don't_ want an ecosystem with different languages. (That's not my opinion, but the meaning of our lead developer and our managers)
So this means:
- D solution:
	gtkD   -> D
	gtk+   -> c
	phobos -> D
	perhabs other libraries needed?
- C++ solution:
	Qt	-> C++
	STL	-> C++
      optional:
	Boost   -> C++


This is also the reason why so many developers like VisualStudio and .Net! You install it and you have everything needed from one hand.
- IDE
- .Net with networking, GUI , Filesystem, ... -> all coded in C# (except the winapi which is a system library)

Ok, I know, these peoples also are the one who don't know the power of a really good OS like linux.
In Ubuntu I just type:
$ sudo apt-get install qtcreator
and I have also everything installed I need for development.
But this is not the case on windows. Windows user thinks different.

So this discussion is really the same as Windows vs. linux.
There is always someone who persist on windows, regarless how good other systems are!

So I think for short or middle term such solution like gtkD, QtD, DWT are good, but for the long term the D community needs a D GUI library completly written in D.

Just my thoughts
°Matthias

On 2011-04-05 04:26, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> On 4/5/11, Nick Sabalausky<a@a.a>  wrote:
>> After all, I
>> *really* want to get around to making my own web browser (based off either
>> Mozilla or Chromium) - I'm getting really fed up with the current state of
>> available web browsers. Well, and the web as a whole (god I fucking hate the
>> web), but one step at a time, I guess).
>
> I'll be the first to install it.
>
> Btw, there's a full web browser example in the QtD sources. But it has
> to be ported to D2. And then you have to deal with any eventual bugs
> along the way. :]

DWT also has support for embedded web browsers. Although I'm not sure if it works or not.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg