The main contributors of D are doing a wonderful job of enhancing the language. I can confidently say that we are leagues ahead of where we stood a just two years ago. But there has been a long cry for documentation that has gone unanswered: not because they refuse to cooperate but rather, because they are a small volunteer force, occupied by real demands to address the quirks of the language, and lack the time to all issues by themselves.

It stands then that the community can make a conscious effort to address some of the outstanding issues. As such, I have chosen to champion the tutorial/documentation effort. Though, I possess very little programming experience but am willing to try and am hereby soliciting your assistance in making this a reality.

dtutor.org is an active domain dedicated to providing tutorials for the language. I will require content contributors but before we can begin to provide content there are a couple of issues to address:

I. Features to be supported

    Interactive Tutorials - Users must be able to modify and execute
examples in place to observe side effects.

    Interactive Books - A number of free books exist around the internet
that can be ported to D. The first two that come to mind are How to
"Think Like a Computer Scientist", "Problem Solving with Algorithms and
Data Structures Using Python" and Ali Çehreli's very own "Programming in D".

    Problems - Staged ICPC problems for users to attempt. Solutions may
be submitted online for comparison against previously submitted
solutions to determine efficiency ranking and users may choose to create
and account to keep track of progress.

    Online Judge - to be used to determine accuracy and efficiency of
submitted solutions to problems and planned programming contests.

    Forum - Unlocked to individual users per problem after solution
accepted by Online Judge.

II. Look and Feel

Look and feel of the site will be largely influenced by two things: The DConf website and this little gem which provides encouragement for the ideas behind interactive tutorials/books:

	Runestone (https://github.com/bnmnetp/runestone);

I came across it while searching for ideas on how to get started with dtutor.org and must admit: it is a fascinating little project.

I am wondering if there are any Python experts (or experts in general) out there willing to assist in porting it to D? It comes with built in support for Python and C/C++ among other languages. However, because dtutor.org aims to promote all things D, it would aid greatly to have a D implementation which removes all external dependencies and support vice implementing D support for the original project. By doing this we can showcase the strengths of DMDScript, vibe and other technology already available in D.

Logo: My idea for the logo is simply this (see attachment):

	D!(tutor).org

As Andrei would say: destroy!

III. Constraints

DMDScript for web scripting
Vibe for hosting (diet templates)
MangoDB for database

IV. Timeline

The hope is for complete functionality by DConf 2014. Shooting for Initial Launch by September.

Calling all website designers, database developers, authors and D enthusiast. Lend a hand in eliminating this problem.

Andrew

Looks great. A few thoughts interspersed:

> I. Features to be supported

Love the list, particularly the interactive aspect.

> Runestone (https://github.com/bnmnetp/runestone);

Would be great to showcase a site using runestone (I browsed the README
real quick without finding one).

> DMDScript for web scripting

I think this is somewhat of a distraction; dmdscript is just an
implementation of Javascript so it only relates very little to D other
than being implemented by Walter.

> Vibe for hosting (diet templates)

Yes, awesome.

> MangoDB for database

Or other databases featuring D bindings (yet to be finished).

> The hope is for complete functionality by DConf 2014. Shooting for
> Initial Launch by September.

This seems to be a reasonable timeline.


Andrei

Numerical simulations content suggestion.

Depending on time, I would like to do it at some point but just in case, i'll leave it here. I think people from scientific community would agree. I'm also for problem specific approach that can be deconstructed into tools rather than giving people tools. basically, a high school student should be able to figure out everything from starting an editor to getting an eps of gnuplot.

1. sample uses on clusters mpi or new hpx. monte-carlo calculation of an area of a circle.

2. numerical recipies covers a lot of common problems in science. it would be a nice guide on what to include. (giving reference to the book of course). it should also be used to show a correct style of programming.

3. wolfram mathematica, matlab and sage already did a good job of finding and documenting showcases of popular numerical computations.

======================================================

web interface:

it would be nice to see the same tutorial for different paradigms of programming -- click a button for functional or for object oriented and so on. figuring out paradigms was the hardest part for me in learning c++.

On Sunday, 5 May 2013 at 19:37:02 UTC, Tyro[17] wrote:
> The main contributors of D are doing a wonderful job of enhancing the
> language. I can confidently say that we are leagues ahead of where we
> stood a just two years ago. But there has been a long cry for
> documentation that has gone unanswered: not because they refuse to
> cooperate but rather, because they are a small volunteer force, occupied
> by real demands to address the quirks of the language, and lack the time
> to all issues by themselves.

Don't we all :(

>
> It stands then that the community can make a conscious effort to address
> some of the outstanding issues. As such, I have chosen to champion the
> tutorial/documentation effort. Though, I possess very little programming
> experience but am willing to try and am hereby soliciting your
> assistance in making this a reality.

Good luck!

>
> dtutor.org is an active domain dedicated to providing tutorials for the
> language. I will require content contributors but before we can begin to
> provide content there are a couple of issues to address:
>
> I. Features to be supported
>
>     Interactive Tutorials - Users must be able to modify and execute
> examples in place to observe side effects.

You have DPaste to work with here (http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/), IIRC it is connected to sample code at dlang.org.

>
>     Interactive Books - A number of free books exist around the internet
> that can be ported to D. The first two that come to mind are How to
> "Think Like a Computer Scientist", "Problem Solving with Algorithms and
> Data Structures Using Python" and Ali Çehreli's very own "Programming in D".

Videos are useful as well.

>
>     Problems - Staged ICPC problems for users to attempt. Solutions may
> be submitted online for comparison against previously submitted
> solutions to determine efficiency ranking and users may choose to create
> and account to keep track of progress.
>
>     Online Judge - to be used to determine accuracy and efficiency of
> submitted solutions to problems and planned programming contests.

I've had good experiences learning via stuff like that.

>
>     Forum - Unlocked to individual users per problem after solution
> accepted by Online Judge.

Rejected Software (creators of vibe) has vibenews, which I believe is quite customizable.

>
> II. Look and Feel
>
> Look and feel of the site will be largely influenced by two things: The
> DConf website and this little gem which provides encouragement for the
> ideas behind interactive tutorials/books:
>
> 	Runestone (https://github.com/bnmnetp/runestone);
>
> I came across it while searching for ideas on how to get started with
> dtutor.org and must admit: it is a fascinating little project.
>

It is!

I have to vouch for cplusplus.com, which isn't interactive, but I was able to teach myself C++ with only that and "C++ for Dummies," so it worked for one guy.

> I am wondering if there are any Python experts (or experts in general)
> out there willing to assist in porting it to D? It comes with built in
> support for Python and C/C++ among other languages. However, because
> dtutor.org aims to promote all things D, it would aid greatly to have a
> D implementation which removes all external dependencies and support
> vice implementing D support for the original project. By doing this we
> can showcase the strengths of DMDScript, vibe and other technology
> already available in D.
>
> Logo: My idea for the logo is simply this (see attachment):
>
> 	D!(tutor).org

If your target audience is people who know little about D, this would just look odd.

>
> As Andrei would say: destroy!
>
> III. Constraints
>
> DMDScript for web scripting
> Vibe for hosting (diet templates)
> MangoDB for database
>
> IV. Timeline
>
> The hope is for complete functionality by DConf 2014.
> Shooting for Initial Launch by September.
>
> Calling all website designers, database developers, authors and D
> enthusiast. Lend a hand in eliminating this problem.

Like everyone, my time is limited, but I can help a bit. Sign me up!

>
> Andrew

NMS

bah, sorry for poor grammar. I forgot there is no edit or delete buttons

On Sunday, 5 May 2013 at 22:03:17 UTC, Kirill wrote:
> Numerical simulations content suggestion.
>
> Depending on time, I would like to do it at some point but just in case, i'll leave it here. I think people from scientific community would agree. I'm also for problem specific approach that can be deconstructed into tools rather than giving people tools. basically, a high school student should be able to figure out everything from starting an editor to getting an eps of gnuplot.
>
> 1. sample uses on clusters mpi or new hpx. monte-carlo calculation of an area of a circle.
>
> 2. numerical recipies covers a lot of common problems in science. it would be a nice guide on what to include. (giving reference to the book of course). it should also be used to show a correct style of programming.
>
> 3. wolfram mathematica, matlab and sage already did a good job of finding and documenting showcases of popular numerical computations.
>
> ======================================================
>
> web interface:
>
> it would be nice to see the same tutorial for different paradigms of programming -- click a button for functional or for object oriented and so on. figuring out paradigms was the hardest part for me in learning c++.

On Sunday, 5 May 2013 at 22:06:17 UTC, Nathan M. Swan wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 May 2013 at 19:37:02 UTC, Tyro[17] wrote:
>> The main contributors of D are doing a wonderful job of enhancing the
>> language. I can confidently say that we are leagues ahead of where we
>> stood a just two years ago. But there has been a long cry for
>> documentation that has gone unanswered: not because they refuse to
>> cooperate but rather, because they are a small volunteer force, occupied
>> by real demands to address the quirks of the language, and lack the time
>> to all issues by themselves.
>
> Don't we all :(
>
>>
>> It stands then that the community can make a conscious effort to address
>> some of the outstanding issues. As such, I have chosen to champion the
>> tutorial/documentation effort. Though, I possess very little programming
>> experience but am willing to try and am hereby soliciting your
>> assistance in making this a reality.
>
> Good luck!
>
>>
>> dtutor.org is an active domain dedicated to providing tutorials for the
>> language. I will require content contributors but before we can begin to
>> provide content there are a couple of issues to address:
>>
>> I. Features to be supported
>>
>>    Interactive Tutorials - Users must be able to modify and execute
>> examples in place to observe side effects.
>
> You have DPaste to work with here (http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/), IIRC it is connected to sample code at dlang.org.
>
>>
>>    Interactive Books - A number of free books exist around the internet
>> that can be ported to D. The first two that come to mind are How to
>> "Think Like a Computer Scientist", "Problem Solving with Algorithms and
>> Data Structures Using Python" and Ali Çehreli's very own "Programming in D".
>
> Videos are useful as well.
>
>>
>>    Problems - Staged ICPC problems for users to attempt. Solutions may
>> be submitted online for comparison against previously submitted
>> solutions to determine efficiency ranking and users may choose to create
>> and account to keep track of progress.
>>
>>    Online Judge - to be used to determine accuracy and efficiency of
>> submitted solutions to problems and planned programming contests.
>
> I've had good experiences learning via stuff like that.
>
>>
>>    Forum - Unlocked to individual users per problem after solution
>> accepted by Online Judge.
>
> Rejected Software (creators of vibe) has vibenews, which I believe is quite customizable.
>
>>
>> II. Look and Feel
>>
>> Look and feel of the site will be largely influenced by two things: The
>> DConf website and this little gem which provides encouragement for the
>> ideas behind interactive tutorials/books:
>>
>> 	Runestone (https://github.com/bnmnetp/runestone);
>>
>> I came across it while searching for ideas on how to get started with
>> dtutor.org and must admit: it is a fascinating little project.
>>
>
> It is!
>
> I have to vouch for cplusplus.com, which isn't interactive, but I was able to teach myself C++ with only that and "C++ for Dummies," so it worked for one guy.
>
>> I am wondering if there are any Python experts (or experts in general)
>> out there willing to assist in porting it to D? It comes with built in
>> support for Python and C/C++ among other languages. However, because
>> dtutor.org aims to promote all things D, it would aid greatly to have a
>> D implementation which removes all external dependencies and support
>> vice implementing D support for the original project. By doing this we
>> can showcase the strengths of DMDScript, vibe and other technology
>> already available in D.
>>
>> Logo: My idea for the logo is simply this (see attachment):
>>
>> 	D!(tutor).org
>
> If your target audience is people who know little about D, this would just look odd.
>
>>
>> As Andrei would say: destroy!
>>
>> III. Constraints
>>
>> DMDScript for web scripting
>> Vibe for hosting (diet templates)
>> MangoDB for database
>>
>> IV. Timeline
>>
>> The hope is for complete functionality by DConf 2014.
>> Shooting for Initial Launch by September.
>>
>> Calling all website designers, database developers, authors and D
>> enthusiast. Lend a hand in eliminating this problem.
>
> Like everyone, my time is limited, but I can help a bit. Sign me up!
>
>>
>> Andrew
>
> NMS

I forgot, do you have a github repo up?

NMS

> I. Features to be supported
>
>     Problems - Staged ICPC problems for users to attempt. Solutions may
> be submitted online for comparison against previously submitted
> solutions to determine efficiency ranking and users may choose to create
> and account to keep track of progress.
>
>     Online Judge - to be used to determine accuracy and efficiency of
> submitted solutions to problems and planned programming contests.

You mean algorithmic contests like ACM ICPC, right?  There are a few online judges supporting the D programming language which already have all other necessary infrastructure (problem archive, online judge and server itself, etc).

First, there's Codeforces (http://codeforces.com).  There are already hundreds of algorithmic problems in the problem archive which can be solved individually or by participating in "virtual" past contests.  New contests (5 problems, 2 hour duration) are held, like, weekly.  The online judge supports a number of programming languages.  They recently upgraded the D compiler to the current DMD 2.062 (Windows version).

Then there's Sphere Online Judge (http://spoj.pl).  They support 48 programming languages, their D version is listed as GDC 4.1.3 which as I understand is pretty old (D1?).

And then there is a number of mathematical and/or algorithmic online contest sites where one runs the code locally on given inputs and submits only the result.  Examples of these are Project Euler (http://projecteuler.net) and Rosalind (http://rosalind.info).  After you successfully solve a problem, you usually get access to a forum where people post and discuss their approaches in different programming languages, trying to show the strengths of their tools.

An online judge dedicated to D seems like a fun idea at first.  Still, things usually go the other way around.  Much effort is put into getting an online judge up and running.  It is far from trivial to constantly add good algorithmic problems.  But once you have these two, adding support for a programming language is a matter of hours.

Regarding programming contests, there's another flavor of them: instead of solving small math/algo problems in a limited time frame, the competitors can design or develop a small-ish software component and submit them for a formal review.  The judging criteria should however be precise enough (i.e. carefully prepared by someone having a clear general picture).  This could even turn into a successful business model, the presentation at http://bsr.london.edu/files/1357/who-needs-employees.pdf‎ seems to describe it in more detail.  It may happen that a similar model could be adopted to some parts of D development, provided that some of the current developers will like the idea and be really willing to try it.

-----

Ivan Kazmenko.

On 5/5/13 6:06 PM, Nathan M. Swan wrote:
> On Sunday, 5 May 2013 at 19:37:02 UTC, Tyro[17] wrote:
>> The main contributors of D are doing a wonderful job of enhancing the
>> language. I can confidently say that we are leagues ahead of where we
>> stood a just two years ago. But there has been a long cry for
>> documentation that has gone unanswered: not because they refuse to
>> cooperate but rather, because they are a small volunteer force, occupied
>> by real demands to address the quirks of the language, and lack the time
>> to all issues by themselves.
>
> Don't we all :(
>
>>
>> It stands then that the community can make a conscious effort to address
>> some of the outstanding issues. As such, I have chosen to champion the
>> tutorial/documentation effort. Though, I possess very little programming
>> experience but am willing to try and am hereby soliciting your
>> assistance in making this a reality.
>
> Good luck!

Thanks.

>>
>> dtutor.org is an active domain dedicated to providing tutorials for the
>> language. I will require content contributors but before we can begin to
>> provide content there are a couple of issues to address:
>>
>> I. Features to be supported
>>
>>     Interactive Tutorials - Users must be able to modify and execute
>> examples in place to observe side effects.
>
> You have DPaste to work with here (http://dpaste.dzfl.pl/), IIRC it is
> connected to sample code at dlang.org.

Indeed we do. My initial sentiments was that this should be done with DPaste but I'm now inclined to believe that Runestone is more suited for the job. Of course it will require some effort to port it to D.

>>
>>     Interactive Books - A number of free books exist around the internet
>> that can be ported to D. The first two that come to mind are How to
>> "Think Like a Computer Scientist", "Problem Solving with Algorithms and
>> Data Structures Using Python" and Ali Çehreli's very own "Programming
>> in D".
>
> Videos are useful as well.

Should be part of the tutorial/book where applicable.

>>     Online Judge - to be used to determine accuracy and efficiency of
>> submitted solutions to problems and planned programming contests.
>
> I've had good experiences learning via stuff like that.

Though not much, the little experience I with them was comparatively positive.

>>
>>     Forum - Unlocked to individual users per problem after solution
>> accepted by Online Judge.
>
> Rejected Software (creators of vibe) has vibenews, which I believe is
> quite customizable.

Thanks, wasn't aware of that.

>>
>> II. Look and Feel
>>
>> Look and feel of the site will be largely influenced by two things: The
>> DConf website and this little gem which provides encouragement for the
>> ideas behind interactive tutorials/books:
>>
>>     Runestone (https://github.com/bnmnetp/runestone);
>>
>> I came across it while searching for ideas on how to get started with
>> dtutor.org and must admit: it is a fascinating little project.
>>
>
> It is!
>
> I have to vouch for cplusplus.com, which isn't interactive, but I was
> able to teach myself C++ with only that and "C++ for Dummies," so it
> worked for one guy.

Hope to provide a much better experience for the D community. Not to dismiss cplusplus.com (the have done a good job) but the hope is to help elevate D to its rightful place in the programming community at large. Thus, the aim to raise the bar that much higher.

>> Logo: My idea for the logo is simply this (see attachment):
>>
>>     D!(tutor).org
>
> If your target audience is people who know little about D, this would
> just look odd.

Until they reach enlightenment... Then it all make sense!!! But you point is noted.

>> Calling all website designers, database developers, authors and D
>> enthusiast. Lend a hand in eliminating this problem.
>
> Like everyone, my time is limited, but I can help a bit. Sign me up!

Every little bit counts. Thanks.

>>
>> Andrew
>
> NMS

On Sunday, May 05, 2013 19:42:30 Tyro[17] wrote:
> >> Logo: My idea for the logo is simply this (see attachment):
> >>     D!(tutor).org
> > 
> > If your target audience is people who know little about D, this would just look odd.
> 
> Until they reach enlightenment... Then it all make sense!!! But you point is noted.

And once enlightened, they'll ask why the parens were used when they're unnecessary... ;) Cute idea though.

- Jonathan M Davis

On 5/5/13 4:27 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Looks great. A few thoughts interspersed:
>
>> I. Features to be supported
>
> Love the list, particularly the interactive aspect.
>
>> Runestone (https://github.com/bnmnetp/runestone);
>
> Would be great to showcase a site using runestone (I browsed the README
> real quick without finding one).

This would definitely be a plus.

Documentation should be here http://docs.runestoneinteractive.org/build/html/index.html

>> DMDScript for web scripting
>
> I think this is somewhat of a distraction; dmdscript is just an
> implementation of Javascript so it only relates very little to D other
> than being implemented by Walter.

Point taken.

>> Vibe for hosting (diet templates)
>
> Yes, awesome.
>
>> MangoDB for database
>
> Or other databases featuring D bindings (yet to be finished).

No objections there but MongoDB and Redis are the two currently supported by Vibe.

>> The hope is for complete functionality by DConf 2014. Shooting for
>> Initial Launch by September.
>
> This seems to be a reasonable timeline.
>
>
> Andrei
>